From seed starting to planting - help me in my plan

[tnkrer]

This is my first year to start from seed. So I am reading and trying to formulate a plan. Here are the major stages and how I plan to accomplish those (with questions peppered in) Please let me know where I should change/improve

0. Preparation: Find out what you want and acquire seeds - In the winter preceding the season, read up on TVille and find out what you would like to grow, what would work in your location, for your style of growing etc. Beg, borrow, barter, buy the seeds you need.

1. Sprouting: I am using small dixie cups (with lids) with a thin layer of DE (Diatomaceous Earth) saturated with water. The cups are in a plastic container which is on heating mat. variety of the seed is named on the dixie cup. The temperature inside the plastic container hovers between 75-80 F. In my trial I got tremendous sprouts on all 4 seeds I tried. Right now I have three seeds of each variety per dixie cup. (16 containers in all, tomatoes, eggplants and peppers)

2. Seedling: In 3 to 5 days the seeds will sprout. When the sprouts are still small (less than 1/4", I am worried that bigger sprouts might break off when I am moving those) move the sprouts to seed starting tray containing DE. The tray is over the seed heating mat. There is a plastic dome on the seedling tray. The temp inside that is around 75 F. DE is being watered from bottom. Add 1/4 tsp per gallon of all purpose fertilizer to the water when seedlings emerge. In another 3 days I will be ready to move my sprouts to this setup. This set up is ready to go.

3. Transplant: This is probably 1-3 weeks away and I am least prepared for it. So many questions and nothing is ready yet.
. Potting

After true leaves emerge, move each seedling to its own big pot.

• Exactly when should I transplant the seedling.
• What should be the size of the pot?
• Is this the final home of the plant before it gets planted out?
  

I plan to take 2 strongest seedlings from the three that sprouted and pot them (I am going to plant only one of each variety, keep one as backup. Third seedling is discarded.)

. Temperature

These pots will move to the garage where there is never sunlight and minimum temperature goes down to 35 right now. (unheated garage in New England), but may not go down that low in next few days. I have read that folks have been keeping plants in garage and it automatically provides cold treatment.

• When should I worry about them being too cold? (I will have a temp sensor near plants that will tell me the lowest temp they reached in the night.)

. Watering/Fertilizer

I plan to water after I see some stress. (I read on TVille that it creates stronger root system to deprive the plants of water just a little bit). Also keep feeding 1/4 tsp per gallon of fert.

. Grow Lights

I have 40" X 27" area in the garage. I can double that by cleaning up the mess and quadruple that by adding another level and cleaning up the mess.

• How many plants will that hold?

I plan to add lights hanging with a chain from the ceiling so I can adjust height and put those on timer so that I can turn those off for some time in night. I am following this thread in the hopes of getting thicker stems.

• What kind of lights should I use?
• How many sq ft per those lights?
• How long to keep lights on, any preferable time to shut off lights durint the 24 hours?
• There is no enclosure as such, so I don't see where I can paint it flat white .. Should I create walls on either side for the light to reflect better?
  

4. Hardening: I didn't really do this for nursery bought plants in last few years.

• When should I start hardening? when daytime temps are about 50 AND the There are two levels of branches?

This seems to be standard practice - Take out one hour first day, 2 hours second day .. so on until they stay out during daytime.

5. Plant Out: I will worry about this later.

Any other gotchas? Things to watch out for? I am reading about this damping off and I don't know what that is. Will this plan promote that problem?

Thanks for reading all this rambling and appreciate any help/thoughts you can provide. I am planning to buy stuff for my grow light setup tomorrow, so need to decide on the lights ASAP.

[JamesL]

Tnkrer,
I can answer some Garage questions for you.
It does give you the "cold treatment"
Temps - I don't get worried unless it is approaching freezing. 35 is great as a bottom temp. They can survive lower than that but do you really want to find out?
I used an oil filled heater on quite a few nights last year, and think this year might be more.

Lights - You need a 4' by 2' area to put two 4ft 4 bulb T-8 fixtures side by side. Fits about 18 plants. Remember they will need more room at the end before planting out once they get bigger. You could cram more in but I like them to have some elbow room.
I use these -
http://www.homedepot.com/b/N-5yc1v/N...atchall&NCNI-5
Bulbs - Go with 6500's
10 pack - http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-4...2949/203466585

Light Timers - Set them for 14 to 16 hours per day.
Mine are - http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-15-Amp...5079/100685884

Hardening off - 1 to 2 weeks before planting out. You can go shorter. Your plants will already be temperature acclimated.

Garage photo - I have 2 sets of lights as above. For reference those are 4" soil blocks.


P1070938_edited-1 (Custom)

When are you starting your seed? What is your target plant out date?

[Father'sDaughter]

In the future you can save yourself a step by skipping the Dixie cup stage and germinating the seeds directly in the starter tray. This way you don't have to risk any damage trying to move them when they are so small.

Personally, I start all my seeds in 2.5" square x 3.5" deep pots using DE and they are happy there until the have a couple of sets of true leaves. Then I up-pot them to 4" square x 6" deep pots using Miracle Grow potting mix (not the moisture control stuff) with some perlite mixed in. This is their home until they are ready to go into the ground.

I don't have a garage, so they stay in the basement under shop lights and T8 bulbs and I have the lights on a timer set to go on at about sunrise and off at about sunset. The key is keeping the lights down close to the plants.

For hardening off, I use a mini four-tier greenhouse (currently on sale for $18 at Ocean State Job Lot). I usually assemble it in mid-to-late March and start putting plants out in it at least a week or two before they are due to go into the ground. Hopefully in a couple of weeks I can get it set up and move the onions out to it.

[tnkrer]

JamesL - Thanks for showing your setup. I have cleared 4 x 2 on the shelf in the garage. I decided to research some more and buy the components in a week. I think I have that much time.
I expect the seeds to sprout in next couple of days and they will go in the seed starter trays. I imagine they will need at least a week to show true leaves when they will go under lights. Is that right timing?
So that will be 8 bulbs over 4x2 area or one bulb per sq ft. right?
Setting up grow lights is not a cheap option . Hopefully they keep working for years and I don't have to keep spending every year.

I hope to plant out in first week of May. It is early for our zone, but I am planning to create a container hoop house (unheated) which should allow me to extend the season by 3-4 weeks.

Fathers daughter: The current seed starting cell is 1 inch sq and 2 inches deep. I plan to up-pot them after first set of true leaves in a 4" sq 6 inch deep pot, where I will leave them until I plant those out. I plan to use 3:2:1 mix recommended by Raybo for his containers. So when they go out, I just take the whole root ball and dump it in my container.

I read around that pepper and eggplant are harder to sprout. So I was trying to ensure that I have sprouts before I put those in seed starters.

Thanks for the pointer to the mini greenhouse. I plan to go out to the store tomorrow and buy it. I couldn't see from the pictures if it has wheels. If it doesn't it may be easy to add those and just roll in and out

[Father'sDaughter]

No wheels on the green house. Once mine is out, it stays out because I don't have anywhere to wheel it in to. I do put gallon jugs full of water in the bottom of it that not only weigh down the greenhouse if it gets windy, but also provides some night-time heat after the sun warms the water during the day. If we do get a touch of overnight colder temps, I keep a couple of old army blankets handy to cover it with.

[JamesL]

Tnkrer,
Yes, 8 bulbs in a 4x2 area. I like that set up as you can also get 4 1020 trays under the lights side by side.
No doubt you could get different fixtures and build a set up for less money. That particular fixture is sturdy and is really plug and play out of the box. Just add bulbs. They have built in plugs as well so you can plug them in serially, then into timer and into the wall (add a heavy duty extension cord).
I expect to get at least 10 years out of the fixtures and you need to swap bulbs every 3 to 4 years.
Timing- probably 10 to 14 days. Don't rush them out too quick. Once they get out in the garage you will see little top growth for weeks. And they will probably turn an interesting shade of purple.
I think I have a good pic of that someplace.

Edit- Found a couple pics from April 2012. You can see how purple the undersides of the leaves and the stems become.

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P1060717

[dfollett]

JamesL What do you use for potting up? It looks like you have seedlings in piles of potting soil. What's holding them together? How do you set them up?

[JamesL]

Potting blocks! No root bound plants. Air pruning.
Holding them together - compression.
I love them although I have been test driving seed starting in DE this year (and it is working out very well) so I am not sure yet how i am going to do the cross over or if I even can.
Eliot Coleman was a proponent.
Jason Beams websites.
http://www.pottingblocks.com/
http://thesoilblocker.blogspot.com/

[ErieDeare]

I also am going to start plants from seed and I am looking for lights for my Home made Plant-stand.

I would like to know what you think about this light?


Lithonia Lighting All Season Shop Light 4 ft. 2-Light Grey T8 Strip Fluorescent
Model # 1242ZG RE Internet # 202052422 Store SKU # 390063
http://www.homedepot.com/b/N-5yc1v/N...atchall&NCNI-5

i would need two of them.

Do you think that it is to late to start Tomatoes and Pepper plants?
What else could I start at this time?

I live in Ohio.

[Father'sDaughter]

Erie, those are the same shop lights I use. They are now three years old and still working fine.

I know there is a lot to be said for personal experience and learning by trial when it comes to starting and planting dates, but if you're relatively new at all this, a good starting point might be "The Old Farmer's Almanac" seed starting table -- plug in your zip code and take a look at their recommendations --

http://www.almanac.com/gardening/pla...es/OH/Columbus

[JamesL]

Originally Posted by ErieDeare

I also am going to start plants from seed and I am looking for lights for my Home made Plant-stand.

I would like to know what you think about this light?


Lithonia Lighting All Season Shop Light 4 ft. 2-Light Grey T8 Strip Fluorescent
Model # 1242ZG RE Internet # 202052422 Store SKU # 390063
http://www.homedepot.com/b/N-5yc1v/N...atchall&NCNI-5

i would need two of them.

Do you think that it is to late to start Tomatoes and Pepper plants?
What else could I start at this time?

I live in Ohio.

I would agree with FathersDaughter, those light fixtures would be fine.
Not to late to start seed! Your plant out date is probable early May right?

[tnkrer]

Update on where things are after 5 weeks from sprouting ..

DE and sprout box works great! I had a great germination rate overall.

Here are the tomato plants at 5 weeks from sprouting. They are being hardened in sun. (They will be in sun for 4 hours today. This is their 5th day outside)



I am ridiculously happy about this black cherry. (It was a seed that I had saved, also first time). I don't really have a comparison point, but the stem seems to be already as thick as the ones I buy in stores.



Don't know how to decide when they are ready to be planted outside (I am going to create a hoop house type environment, so I am not going to wait for mother nature to be ready for them)

Pepper and eggplant are however behind. They were started at the same time and have small true leaves at this point. (Next year, those will be started earlier)

Some of the seeds (from certain varieties) had very poor germination rate. Since I had amazing germination rate on most seeds, I think that those seeds were not good. I did have a problem where some of the sprouted seeds did not then go on to give cotyledon leaves. (like this cucumber stillborn) What causes that? All the plants that got to the stage of cotyledon leaves sprouted true leaves and seem to be doing fine.

[Father'sDaughter]

Those plants are looking great! Mine are still in the basement and until these cool/cold nights are over, they won't be making the trip out to the mini green house. Hopefully soon as they are running out of head room under the lights!

They look to be ready to go out into the garden as long the weather cooperates or you have a foolproof way to keep them warm if we have another cold snap. Last year I planted out a week or two earlier than normal, and almost lost them to a late May cold spell. I think we had frost for at least two or three nights in a row, if I recall. I'm aiming for May 17/18, but I will hold off until Memorial Day weekend if I don't like the weather pattern. Peppers and eggplants will go out a week or so after the tomatoes.

[JamesL]

Are you sure this is your first year?
Great job!

[chalstonsc]

Told you not to worry! Cold treatment looks pretty good.