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Old March 18, 2011   #1
stoopeechee
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Default Banana Peels for Potassium?

I've heard of people putting banna peels in the hole at plant out,
-as well as egg shells for Ca. or even Tums antacid.

What do you think?
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Old March 18, 2011   #2
ireilly
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I put them into my compost pile like many other scraps. How much potassium the skins themselves have is another thing though. I think you are better putting in something more quantifiable.

Dice put a link in this thread on the NPK analysis of a lot of common things like peels. It does not say specifically "banana peels" though.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16622
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Old March 18, 2011   #3
mjc
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It would take several pounds of them to really do anything. I can't find it now, but I had a link that did have the amount for banana peels, and it was pretty low. Eggshells do have more calcium and potassium than banana peels, but the peels do add organic matter. Composting them is good use for them, especially since they have been hit with at least one pesticide and probably a fungicide (or more) before they get to the store shelves.
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Old March 18, 2011   #4
organichris
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I think its somewhat of a mistake, particularly if we are using the organic method, to think solely in terms of percentages of N-P-K. Rather our thinking should be: what makes a significant contribution?

Bananas are a source of potassium and phosphorus. You can throw the peel in the hole, or better yet, throw in the whole thing - eggshells too. One thing most have failed to comprehend catch on to is that tomato plants love fresh garbage.

Don't get me wrong, composting is good too. I am an avid composter, but you don't have to compost them. Leave the TUMS alone though.
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Old March 19, 2011   #5
kevinrs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by organichris View Post
I think its somewhat of a mistake, particularly if we are using the organic method, to think solely in terms of percentages of N-P-K. Rather our thinking should be: what makes a significant contribution?

Bananas are a source of potassium and phosphorus. You can throw the peel in the hole, or better yet, throw in the whole thing - eggshells too. One thing most have failed to comprehend catch on to is that tomato plants love fresh garbage.

Don't get me wrong, composting is good too. I am an avid composter, but you don't have to compost them. Leave the TUMS alone though.
well if you are trying to be organic, you'd have to stick with organic bananas, the cheaper ones are definitely treated.
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Old March 19, 2011   #6
organichris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinrs View Post
well if you are trying to be organic, you'd have to stick with organic bananas, the cheaper ones are definitely treated.
I used to get really technical like that, but found it is much too impractical. The organic method is much more a way of utilizing naturally available resources rather than avoiding contact with any and every synthetic chemical substance. By that higher standard, almost nothing is "organic", including compost.
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Old March 19, 2011   #7
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Quote:
well if you are trying to be organic, you'd have to stick with organic bananas, the cheaper ones are definitely treated.
You're right, certified organic growers can't fudge details. I think most home gardeners are organic as they can be.

But you absolutely can grow 100% organic. It's more difficult but many people do.

Anything else just "naturally" grown. Organic is organic.


Quote:
By that higher standard, almost nothing is "organic", including compost.
I disagree with this statement as an organic farmer - every input must 100% organic and we go through a lengthy certification process where every detail is accounted for.

I realize for a home gardener it is impractical, though - but that higher standard is achievable and to say "almost nothing is organic", is a false. The OMRI list here -

http://www.omri.org/

The certification process is here -
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/...av=AGRICULTURE

Hope those links work...
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Old March 19, 2011   #8
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I was using hyperbole, surf4grrl, but you get my point - which is that, at some point, being technical becomes pointless. And "organic" becomes more of a brand or a gimmick than anything else. If neither naturally grown nor organically grown produce contain harmful chemical residues, and the nutritional value is identical, what advantage is certified organic? Many of the larger commercial (government certified) organic farms are producing substandard food anyway.

When Sir Albert Howard began developing the organic method, which really was just a scientific look at what were normal agricultural practices for thousands of years, I don't think he had in mind the scrutiny of every turd that came out of an animal's butt to determine whether his diet was sufficient for it to be certified organic crap. The idea of the organic method, Howard's method, was the incorporation of organic matter for sustainable agriculture - not the exclusion of it.
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Old March 19, 2011   #9
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Pretty much anything commercial and not organic though now has residue, harmful or not. Many fruits and some vegetables are sprayed with anti-fungal agents or anti-sprout agents, ripening retardation chemicals or coated with waxes.

I just have to consider that going through a good hot compost pile, or even one not so hot but being in it for a year, and then whatever is left being diluted when spread over the whole garden would have to be better than putting it directly under your plant. Many of the chemicals used on non-organic produce outside the US would be illegal in the US, but they can be used on produce that is then imported.
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Old March 19, 2011   #10
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Chris,

Did you look at links? I'm glad you don't think there is big difference of certified versus simply saying organic! Ask anyone who becomes certified (or otherwise) is it's just a marketing gimmick.

Quote:
If neither naturally grown nor organically grown produce contain harmful chemical residues, and the nutritional value is identical, what advantage is certified organic? Many of the larger commercial (government certified) organic farms are producing substandard food anyway.
Really, which ones are producing substandard food? I would like some qualification of this rather than a generalization since you made this statement.

Again, do you understand what it takes to be certified?

If we get pesticide drift from another non-organic farmer or the utility company sprays etc etc - we lose certification for 3 years until we come into compliance. Do you have any idea the lengths farmers go through to be certified? The paperwork that we have to read and fill out every year is basically equal to a book - not to mention the process itself.

The point of certified organic is so someone can't just "say" their organic and then dump miracle grow and everything into it. Regulations are arduous yes, but there so there's agreed upon terms of "organic" for everyone.

Here's the definition from wiki -


Quote:
Organic foods are made according to certain production standards.

Organic foods are those that are produced using environmentally sound methods that do not involve modern synthetic inputs such as pesticides and chemical fertilizers, do not contain genetically modified organisms, and are not processed using irradiation, industrial solvents, or chemical food additives.[1]
For the vast majority of human history, agriculture can be described as "organic"; only during the 20th century was a large supply of new synthetic chemicals introduced to the food supply. The organic farming movement arose in the 1940s in response to the industrialization of agriculture known as the Green Revolution.[2]
Organic food production is a heavily regulated industry, distinct from private gardening.

Anyway, no point in arguing, you're definition of organic is not what most people understand organic to mean.

& that's OK, but please stop casting casting aspersions onto organic farmers and what we do or don't do and why we do it. It comes across as snide and insulting. Hardwork, pride, integrity and passion goes into what I and other farmers do. It's hardly because we're getting rich off of a brand or gimmick.
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Old March 19, 2011   #11
organichris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinrs View Post
Pretty much anything commercial and not organic though now has residue, harmful or not. Many fruits and some vegetables are sprayed with anti-fungal agents or anti-sprout agents, ripening retardation chemicals or coated with waxes.

I just have to consider that going through a good hot compost pile, or even one not so hot but being in it for a year, and then whatever is left being diluted when spread over the whole garden would have to be better than putting it directly under your plant. Many of the chemicals used on non-organic produce outside the US would be illegal in the US, but they can be used on produce that is then imported.
I see what you're saying. Is it better? Perhaps in some respects. But for practical reasons, why? Will burrying a banana in the hole produce an inferior tomato? Will that tomato actually contain any measurable amounts of said chemicals? Will their be any actual negative impact to the soil? If by some minute chance there was some actual measurable negative impact to the soil, to what extent would that be offset by the introduction of the organic matter as a benefit? See what I mean?
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Old March 20, 2011   #12
kevinrs
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I just figure, when considering something as loaded with chemicals(herbicides, fungicides, insecticides, nematacides, disinfectants, chemical fertilizers) as I read bananas can be, since reading this thread, why risk it? It's not that much organic matter, and it will get there anyway if it goes through a compost pile. There is no way of knowing why a tomato plant just dies in some cases, it could just weaken and die, or have symptoms of something to make you think you know the problem, when really it's what you put in the hole that kills it?
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Old March 20, 2011   #13
husker nana
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Theirs a site that gives you this information. Bananas below.

What's On My Food? http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/food.jsp?food=BN

You can even click on the part that says: Conventional versus Organic
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Old March 21, 2011   #14
stoopeechee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by husker nana View Post
Theirs a site that gives you this information. Bananas below.

What's On My Food? http://www.whatsonmyfood.org/food.jsp?food=BN

You can even click on the part that says: Conventional versus Organic

Wow! thats all I have to say. Great link

- Everyone who replied-So I guess that's a No!

Is greensand organic?

It contains some K as well as other good stuff, no?
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Old March 21, 2011   #15
kevinrs
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I was just looking up greensand, it's a mineral deposit, not artificially altered or anything, and is usable in organic farming. It is also naturally slow release, looks like a pretty good thing to add to whatever type of gardening you are doing.
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