Crimson Fancy-TGS-No way

[cecilsgarden1958]

Give me a break! Again? I have been bragging up how big my Crimson Fancy tomatoes are, especially considering the weather, so I thought I would go back to TGS and see how big they are supposed to be. BIG SURPRISE! Three of four of the Crimson Fancy Plants I am growing in no way resembles Crimson Fancy. I wondered what was wrong with the one plant. LOL. It was the only right one. The tomato I have been proud of with it's 4"-6" heavily ribbed fruits is definitely not Crimson Fancy. Most are 5"-6". It closely resmebles the picture of Costoluto Genovese in the TGS catalog. Flavor is mild. Color is orangeish red, not deep red and it is wall to wall meat, very few seeds and really firm. I was wondering where the crimson gene went, but I was happy with the size and shape. Pretty darn things, but what is it and why me,again?

Last time was the tomato I named Country Orange.

CECIL

[ContainerTed]

Perhaps the folks at TGS and also Baker Creek need to conduct some internal investigation and figure out what's causing the recent stock contamination incidents. And then, they need to come to their customers with the results.

They need to do something before their images are irrevocably harmed. No action and No answers leaves one with the feeling of apathy on the part of the supplier.

[carolyn137]

http://www.tomatogrowers.com/midseason.htm

Cecil, I checked out the description of Crimson Fancy at TGS and found that it's a hybrid and seldom are there mix ups with hybrid varieties as in crosses, stray seeds, etc. and you were growing four plants.

Have you called TGS to share what you got and ask if there have been other reports for this variety?

That would be a kind thing to do and I think the first thing I'd do if a variety I'd purchased was not true to variety.

Just plain courtesy as I see it b'c no commercial place wants to have wrong varieties out there and there might be a logical explanation which you wouldn't know unless you called.

Here are two descriptions from the NCSU Cultivar list. Notice that no mention of the crimson gene, which you mentioned, is given for Crimson Fancy/

But Crimsonvee does have the crimson gene bred in, from High Crimson, which I've grown.

Crimson Fancy (PSX 012543) - Breeder and vendor: Petoseed. Characteristics: large fruit, very firm with solid interior structure, excellent taste, bush type plants. Resistance: verticillium wilt race 1, fusarium wilt races 1 and 2, gray leaf spot. Similar: Celebrity. 1993.

Crimsonvee (Ont. 738) - Breeder: Hort. Expt. Sta., Simcoe, Ontario, Canada. Vendor: Stokes Seeds. Parentage: Veeset x (Roma VF x H 1350 x High Crimson) x (High Crimson x Blitz). Characteristics: open pollinated, gray-green shoulder- ug, determinate Crimson (ogc) firm, heart to square shape, midseason, hand-pick for processing. Resistance: fusarium wilt race 1 and verticillium wilt. Similar: Veeset. Adaptation: Ontario and the north central United States. 1979.

[cecilsgarden1958]

Carolyn: I tried to call but customer service must have been closed already. I will try again.

I really wasn't worried about the crimson gene anyway :-)

I wish I knew what is was though, it is a nice tomato. It is a hybrid, so maybe it got crossed ith something else by mistake, which would be bad for trying to find this variety again, which I would do; because it is good. It definitely isn't either of the variety you list above. I didn't even think of the plant type, it isn't bush either. I did remember the the fourth plant isn't from the pack. One plant had died and I replaced it with another variety.\\CECIL

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Perhaps the folks at TGS and also Baker Creek need to conduct some internal investigation and figure out what's causing the recent stock contamination incidents. And then, they need to come to their customers with the results.

They need to do something before their images are irrevocably harmed. No action and No answers leaves one with the feeling of apathy on the part of the supplier.

Ted, I don't think I feel as strongly as you do b'c I know that with few exceptions, NO commercial seed source grows out all that they offer and so if folks don't report back problems they don't have a clue there's a problem.


Seeds are obtained in different ways by different retail seed companies. They can produce their own, subcontract out, buy off the shelf from a wholesaler or do a combo of those things.

This issue of wrong varieties has always been with us, mostly for the OP's, and several years ago I did wrong varieties threads at GW and it became clearer as to which companies did the best.

but I clearly remember one small family owned company where germination was the issue and when I contacted that person those results were confirmed and the situation remedied.

Seeds of all varieties offered at most places are not of the same age and unless germination tests are done on a routine basis germination is not always known b'c seed stock is acquired on a rolling basis when needed.

Quite frankly I think it's wonderful that there are so few problems when dealing with OP varieties and seldom have I ever heard about problems with hybrid varieties as to seed purity, just b'c of the way that hybrids are constructed and who sells them to the retailers.

[carolyn137]

Cecil, I happened to be talking with linda at TGS this AM about some questions she asked me in an e-mail sent the day I had surgery and I hadn't gotten back to her.

She said you had called right before me and told me the essence of the conversation, but I'll let you report on that here in your own thread.

She also said that as long as she's been in business she has never had problems with seed purity of hybrids, which is what I had thought to be the case.

[ContainerTed]

My post was worded with my belief that the major suppliers DO monitor the primary forums and will read what I wrote. While they do not respond in this format, that's understandable because they would be swamped here and any direct, specific comments or complaints should be channeled thru their business.

That said, I would think that the folks having problems would be able to return to this format and state what the supplier had done to correct or explain the problem. We're not seeing enough of that. A business's legitimacy in the community it serves is the basis of its success.

Some of the seed sources are going the wrong way. Look at the negative comments this year about contaminated stock coming from Baker Creek. This forum, the GW forum, and Baker Creek's own forum (Idigmygarden) all talk about wrong seeds. An occasional complaint can be understood. Stuff happens. But when you get several and they all point to wrong seeds sent out the door, you have to wonder if the processes at that business need some more attention. And when one hear's more complaints than answers, one's concerns can only deepen.

I ran my own business years ago and I was reasonably successful at it. My first rule was to take care of the customer. Value for dollar. I went out of my way to personally handle any complaint. And I wasn't afraid to let the complaints and the solutions be known in the community. After two years, my three local competitors closed their doors. So, I have an opinion about this, and it's okay if my opinion doesn't match up with others.

So, no offense meant and hopefully none taken. Hopefully, a few truthful comments can be the catalyst to a solution, and that's fundamentally good. I purchased from Bakers Creek this year. But right now, I'm wondering what I actually purchased. I know what it's supposed to be, and I know what they said they sent, but I'll have to wait til next year to validate my purchase. They sent me a gift of seeds for "Black and Red Boar". I email'd them asking what it was supposed to look like, was it OP or Hybrid, DTM etc.???
The answer I got was that they didn't know what they sent out. Didn't know a thing about it except that they suspected it was a tomato, and might have originated at Wild Boar Farms.

HELLOOOOO!!! The way I look at it, it's the same thing as buying an new window air conditioner and after you get home, finding out it's actually a heater.

And I don't think I'm just being cynical.

I've got it. If I just don't make my concerns known, then I can send these places some of my money and they can surprise me with sending SOMETHING back. And if they don't send anything, I guess I'll just have to accept that as well.

I DON'T THINK SO, SCOOTER!!!!!!!

This is America. They can kill me, but I get to tell them I don't like it.

LOL :>)

[carolyn137]

My post was worded with my belief that the major suppliers DO monitor the primary forums and will read what I wrote. While they do not respond in this format, that's understandable because they would be swamped here and any direct, specific comments or complaints should be channeled thru their business.

****

That would be a wrong assumption. I know the owners of quite a few commercial places and they simply don't have the time to read at message sites.

The only ones that I know of who tried to participate a bit are Marianne Jones at GW and it was deemed by the current Mod there that her participation could be constred as selling. And I know another person who posted here and there was the same concern. Linda Sapp's husband Vince used to scan the message sites for new varieties to trial, but he passed away and Linda has no time to participate in message sites although she does do some Googling about specific varieties. Jere Gettle has popped in here from time to time but doesn't read here regularly. Ruth, who is with all the various companies now owned by Jung's Seed was posting here quite regularly and was willing to help solve problems, but I haven't seen her lately. Linda Drowns at Sandhill once tried to keep up a bit but with all the heirloom poultry to tend to and growing out and processing over 400 tomato varieties as well as all else they carry there simply isn't time. Same with Mike Dunton at Victory Seeds and Tom Hauch at Heirloom seeds.

******
That said, I would think that the folks having problems would be able to return to this format and state what the supplier had done to correct or explain the problem. We're not seeing enough of that. A business's legitimacy in the community it serves is the basis of its success.

One important point here. I found out when I was doing the wrong varieties threads that many folks feel uncomfortable, uneasy, whatever, in contacting a seed source to ask about a problem so I initially said I would do the contacting for them.

But that wasn't entirely successful either b'c several of them wanted the person who bought the seeds to do the contacting and if someone can't or won't do it, that's that.

For many folks it's just plain easier to complain about wrong seeds at message sites rather than to do the contacting themselves.

I reported back to Jere quite a few wrong varieties a few years ago and he said he was going to stop getting seeds from the one wholesaler he had been buying from. I don't know how things stand at Baker Creek right now but I have seen quite a few comments about wrong varieties. And if those are also related at his message website, I don't read there, then surely he is aware of the problems.

I've been monitoring commercial seed sources since about 1990 and several have disappeared and many new ones have appeared. It's impossible for me or I think anyone, to do such ongoing monitoring these days b'c of the number of new places. Sometimes someone will contct me directly about a seed problem, although I wish they would contact the source, and then I do what I can to solve a problem.

One example. Someone contacted me about a blurb at Tomatofest where Gary had said that Crnokovic Yugoslavian and Yasha Yugoslavian were the same. I contacted Gary and offered to send him seeds for both b'c they are two entirely different varieties and I had introduced both of them. He graciously accepted my offer and was to grow them out this season.

[ContainerTed]

Dr. C., you are truly one of kind. Now, see how you are? You got me feeling bad about getting serious.

Not a whole lot, but maybe just a little. LOL


And, to fulfill a promise, I now have Dr. Carolyn seeds and will grow it next year as promised. LOL

Take care of yourself

Ted

[cecilsgarden1958]

Yep, I phoned Lnda at TGS this a.m. and she scanned her records and found that although I had purchased seeds from them, Crimson Fancy wasn't one of them. I apologized and regretted the the fact hat I would be unable to identify the good variety I had been sold in error. She graciously offered me a pack of Crimson Fancy, but I declined. She suggested that I may still have the pack to identify the seller, but strangely since I only got seed tis year from 2 sources I don't have it.
OH MY, instant revelation as I am typing!
Rats upon rats, I just recalled that I got the seeds from someone here at Tomatoville.
I just recalled for some reason, unwrapping this tiny little package with a few seeds in it. I will check to see if by chance I have the trade or whatever it was in a messege here, but I doubt it. If whoever you were reads this and remembers sending me the seed, email or messege me, if you know what the tomato I got might have been, because I love the tomato. Description was in my first post.
I also apologize for my posting in error about the seed source, my memory isn't what it used to be. I'm surprised I actually remembered getting it here.

CECIL

[cecilsgarden1958]

BTW:Are there a lot of tomatoes that look like
Costoluto Genovese? About 4 1/2"-5" average.

CECIL