[QUOTE=carolyn137;234641]
What I'm saying is that I was just 72 in June but my brain still functions quite normally on most days, thank you, and I have grown out about 3,000 plus varieties and also wrote a book about heirloom tomatoes, now out of print, but I kept a few here at home and a check for about $500 will get anyone one of those unsullied copies.:lol:
[/QUOTE]

Carolyn, your brain functions much better than mine on many occasions :)
I guess this is why I needed to build the TOMATObase, while you could simply keep all the information in your brain ;) :love:

[QUOTE=carolyn137;234650]And some of the pictures as well, like the one from SSE and the one from TT, and, well, I forgot the others.
[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with Carolyn!
Btw, as a customer who buys seeds regularly from many seed vendors, I am weary of any vendor website who is not using their own pictures of the tomatoes that say they grow themselves. It just does not seem genuine to me. Besides, as Carolyn already said, it is illegal to use copyrighted images.

[QUOTE=muck4doo;234658]Again, my 2 cents. I'm very new here. I came here after seeing Carolyn reference this place somewhere else. I trust her. I'm still figuring out everything here, but saw the "Seed and Pant sources" in the welcome as a sure place I had to visit, and give some of my feedback on(not that anyone is asking of course). I've looked up just about all the vendors listed here as possible places to try for 2013. Anyhow, I did see the reviews for your place earlier, and figured I would never buy from your place. What bothered me most was the re-naming of the different varieties. I agree, you just don't do that. It reminds me of McDowells and the golden arcs. I'm glad to see however that you didn't take criticism harshly, and are willing to learn from it. Good luck, and looking forward to seeing your revised 2012 catalog.[/QUOTE]

You must be referring to another Carolyn sine this Carolyn, me, never knew Penny's website existed until this thread was posted here and wasn't that just today or yesterday? I didn't take the time to go back and check when the initial post was made.

Nope,not me Carolyn, who never had even heard of Penny's website before.

Carolyn, I was reading it as it was you who mentioned 'this place' (=Tomatoville) and not Penny's Tomatoes...

[QUOTE=Tania;234671]Carolyn, I was reading it as it was you who mentioned 'this place' (=Tomatoville) and not Penny's Tomatoes...[/QUOTE]

Exactly right. I came here to Tomatoville, not Penny's, after seeing your recommendation of this website(DG). Thank you for clarifying Tania.

[QUOTE=muck4doo;234675]Exactly right. I came here to Tomatoville, not Penny's, after seeing your recommendation of this website(DG). Thank you for clarifying Tania.[/QUOTE]

OK, is everyone on the same page now?

Yes, I do suggest Tomatoville to folks at other sites when the occasion arises and muckadoo obviously read what I said at DG, so a belated welcome to you.:)

Penny

I commend you for coming on the Forum, not getting nasty and lashing out (like other vendors have when we chastised them), and admitting when you are wrong.

I sincerely welcome you to TomatoVille and hope you post often.

After viewing penny's site and the you tube video, I had typed out a lengthy reply, but thought better about it. Best to stay out of this one. You all are very kind and generous at Tville, but that I already knew. To Carolyn: From reading many of your posts I had you figured for a lot older. 72 ain't old!!! I now figure I have a lot of years to learn more from you and many others here, and I'm not far behind ya.
kenny j

Penny's Tomatoes Website
 

[URL]http://pennystomatoes.com/index.html[/URL]

We have a nice page on growing Organic, a Tomato-Head trivia contest, Free Seeds contests, info. on the Black Gourmet tomatoes and San Marzano varieties and more. Thanks for checking it out.
Tomato-Ly Yours,
Penny
;)

Penny, how is what what was posted here any different from what was already linked to in another Forum here at Tville?

When opening the site I got a security warning saying that the certificate was not signed by the correct person and then I forgot what else it said, but I read a bit after clicking on your list of varieties, but not much more than a couple of varieties b'c they seemed to be in the same order as what was linked to in that other Forum where you got so many comments about your site form several here at Tville.

So how is this site, when you click on the list of tomatoes, different from what was already posted here at Tville?

Thanks.

Penny's Tomatoes. Tastiest Tomatoes in the World...
 

[COLOR=darkred]Or at least we think so.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=darkred]Check out my Tonmato Seed Collection that I'm SO proud of[/COLOR]
[URL]https://www.pennystomatoes.com/shoppingcart/html/combo.htm[/URL]

Make your own Upside down Tomato Planter with junk from the Garage
[URL]http://www.pennystomatoes.com/Upside-Down-tomato-planter.html[/URL]

Why we think Black Gourmet Tomatoes are the best
[URL]http://www.pennystomatoes.com/blacktomatoes.html[/URL]

FREE Tomato Seeds and Contests
[URL]http://pennystomatoes.com/win-organic-tomato-seeds.html[/URL]

[COLOR=seagreen]Also, visit my Website for a lot of other fun Tomato stuff....Tomato Trivia Contests, Tomato recipes, a cool Organic section, etc.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=blue]THANK YOU for checking out my pride and joy, Penny's Tomatoes[/COLOR]
[I][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I'm Tomato-Ly Yours,[/COLOR][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Penny[/COLOR][/SIZE][/I]
[I][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][URL]http://www.pennystomatoes.com[/URL] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/I]

:D:cute::D:cute::D:cute:

Penny's Tomatoes
 

WE did take Craig and Carolyn up on their generous offer to help us make certain all Tomato Seed names were accurate in our 2012 Catalog and our Online catalog. THANKS, we did change any names that weren't entirely accurate. Come and visit Penny's Tomatoes for 2012 we've added 13 New Tomato seeds and products and are having an exciting year so far.
Tomato-Ly Yours, Penny

[QUOTE=PennyM;253285]WE did take Craig and Carolyn up on their generous offer to help us make certain all Tomato Seed names were accurate in our 2012 Catalog and our Online catalog. THANKS, we did change any names that weren't entirely accurate. Come and visit Penny's Tomatoes for 2012 we've added 13 New Tomato seeds and products and are having an exciting year so far.
Tomato-Ly Yours, Penny[/QUOTE]

I'm cheering you on, but what are these:

[SIZE=3][COLOR=red][B]Penny's Early Tomato[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=gray][I]Indeterminate[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE] Ready set go!!! This fast producing high yielding plant will have you eating one of the best tasting tomatoes a month before the others are ready. This hardy plant produces delicious tomatoes all summer long. Penny's Early Tomato is special because it delivers such a tasty abundant crop.



[SIZE=3][COLOR=red][B]Penny's Golden Cherry Tomato[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=gray][I]Indeterminate[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE] This bite size baby is sweet and succulent. A golden beauty that has a well balanced delicious flavor and the majority of the early fruits are seedless. A nice colorful addition to any salad or just pop in your mouth fresh off the plant.



[SIZE=3][COLOR=red][B]Penny's Persimmon Tomato[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=gray][I]Indeterminate[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE] This heirloom tomato is the most flavorful and reliable yellow/orange tomato available. This beefy guy can weigh in at up to 16oz; it's juicy and has few blemishes. These are vigorous plants and offer good yields. My Persimmon is a little sweeter than most and easy to grow.



[SIZE=3][COLOR=red][B]Penny's Pink Beauty[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE] [SIZE=1][COLOR=gray][I]Determinate[/I][/COLOR][/SIZE] This perfect plump pink tomato is rich with tomato flavor and is one of the best tasting tomatoes on the planet. It's very sweet and so well balanced with the perfect amount of acid for a full, complex tomatoey flavor. I use the Pink Beauty on my favorite sandwich called the "Zep".



Are these new hybrids you developed? Don't know if they are in your paper catalog, but they are on your website. Would like to learn more info on them. Especially the Penny Persimmon.

Hi again, Muck4doo,
Thanks for the call out.
As you know we've modified maybe a dozen names of the tomatoes on my website.
Although some of the changes were very minor...like 'Roma tomato' to just 'Roma....or 'Black Sea' to 'Black Sea Man' or 'Sunshine Heirloom' to just 'Sunshine' we were very arduous and deliberate to bring ANY Tomato varieties to their EXACT name and correct spelling to satisfy all of our Friends here on Tomatoville as well as Tatania and Craig that so generously offered to help us be totally accurate.
I think we're 100% good now.
The 4 Tomato varieties that you question with my name on it are Family heirlooms that go back at least 5 Decades....probably a lot longer from our farm in Arizona.
They may have been Hybrids way back in the day...I don't know..but as you know once a variety has been grown for 8 growing seasons it officially becomes a new variety of tomato.
These 4 varieties are Family Heirlooms that mean a lot to us for many reasons.
We also checked from a legal perspective and we're good to go.
I do need to stand by the name of these tomatoes.
Thanks again for the call out.
We've added 13 New tomatoes and products to ur 2012 Collection and made 100% sure of the accuracy. For example we've added a category for "Monster Red" Varieties (we've received a lot of requests for these) and added a "Monster Tomatoes in a Box" item (at a discount vs. buying seperately) that includes the Giant Belgium, Giant Syrian, Italian Giant, Sicilian Saucer, Giant Beefsteak and Mortgage lifter. All names are accurate.
Hope everyone has a fantastic growing season!
Great Gardening,
Penny
[IMG]https://www.pennystomatoes.com/art/monter_tomatoes_in_a_box.jpg[/IMG]

Thanks for clarifying. I'll be sure to give you a try when I buy seed again. :)

You do realize photos and pictures fall under copyright laws? It only takes one person to say, "Hey, I took that photo, now this person is using to to generate a profit."

Well I have read the whole thread, watched the videos, seen the triple rated tomato which isn't and I am sorry but despite seeing Penny changing the names of incorrect tomatoes I can truthfully say I would not buy from this site. It doesn't feel right to me ..too much rah rah rah and I wouldn't feel confident even if I had come accross the site without this thread..sorry Penny but too much hard sell for me.

Just to add, she pushes organic which is fine, says she grows her own..but I could not find anywhere she states she is registered organic, does she not have to be to say that if she grows her own. I could be wrong..

XX Jeannine

Hi Jeannine,
That's fine and I respect your opinion.
Thanks ScottinAtlanta for differentiating Hardcore marketing from Fluff marketing. I prefer the direct approach.
Tomato-Ly Yours, Penny

Jeannine, I have to agree with you, and I am by no means a prude, I can get down and dirty with the best of anybody, and like many men have watched my share of porn, but mixing sex and my love of gardening, and especially tomatoes , makes me feel kinda ill. Sorry penny, hope it works for you, sex has sold many a product I know. But doesn't inspire me to purchase anything when it comes to gardening.

Everyone here is equally entitled to share their opinion, without fear of being criticized for it.

We're not going to tolerate personal attacks, period.

WARNING: Yet more long-windedness followeth. Proceed at your peril.

[QUOTE]mixing sex and my love of gardening, and especially tomatoes , makes me feel kinda ill. Sorry penny, hope it works for you, sex has sold many a product I know. [/QUOTE]

Well, I sort of feel the same way about the Peter Pepper, but it hasn't changed one bit my enthusiasm for those fine seedsmen and seedswomen who include it in their offerings. I first read about it on one of Gleckler's old mailing lists, after all.

It's not really the pepper itself that bothers me. It's the catering to the notion -- very popular among both wishy-washy middle-of-the-road liberals and stylishly pseudolibertarian conservatives-- that one is somehow being daring and iconoclastic by growing the Peter Pepper.

To me,[I] daring [/I]would be something like breeding a naked-seeded pumpkin or squash that is easy to grow, disease and drought resistant, and incredibly productive-- something like Rob Johnston I think it was did when he bred Baby Bear, only maybe even better-- and then corraling the resources to produce that seed in massive quantities, followed by sending X numbers of said seeds free of charge to groups like Oxfam, and to the agriculture departments of, say, Ethiopia, Sudan, Haiti, Ecuador, Kazakhstan etc. Someplace where people are rather hungry, and without good reason other than the non-hungry people of the world think they're too busy with problems of their own.

...Or maybe do the same with an OP/stabilized hybrid corn of the kind of which I dream on a regular basis. As big and productive as Mexican June corn. Roughly as sweet as Iochief, or maybe Buhl. As high in protein as Hopi Blue. Maybe all three primary colors of kernels on the same ear: yellow, red, blue. Something fairly close to a full nutritious meal out of a single plant.

...And then just give it away for free to whomever needs it. Asking nothing in return but enough resources to keep you going a few more miles down the road.

Do something resembling [I]that, [/I]and I'll call you daring and iconoclastic. But growing the Peter Pepper, and snickering about how cool it looks? Nahhhh, that's just for pretenders, know what I mean?

...But I would be interested in knowing more about just what Penny's some-kind-of-a-treelike tomato is really like. Maybe that tomato has some hard-to-find genes that would make for really good breeding stock.

As for the tone of Penny's site... Well, I've only sold a very few garden seeds on Ebay, and that's the meager extent of my commercial experience, but I've plenty of experience selling other things altogether, in a wide variety of markets.

As I see it, when one is in business, one tends to find that people who are unlikely to ever buy anything from you, are still worthy of one's respect and consideration, and sometimes of action calculatedly taking their opinions and feelings into account.

People who already [I]do[/I] buy from one, without so many entreaties (justified or non-) to jump through X number of hoops-- they deserve all the same, only a whole lot [I]more[/I] so.

...So I tend to think that for the most part, with some obvious exceptions, Penny ought to stick with what works for her.

My comment about Penny's site had very little to do with the triple X-rated tomato as such. My point was that she called it a tomato then said it wasn't, I couldn't care a bit that it was anatomically like something else.

My reason for not wishing to buy was a combination of things, the "odd tomato" was just one.

I was not knocking Penny either, I made no reference to her personally. The site did not appeal to me generally, it was very well done and an interesting read but generally I prefer just plain talk whatever I am buying and find the rah rah a bit off putting whether for seeds , shoes, furniture or groceries.

I don't know Penny, have never done business with her so am not in a position to judge her and would not if I was.

It is clear a lot of time and work has gone into her site and that is commendable especially when she seems to be approachable when errors are made.

She is in business to make a living, I truly wish her well and would support her right to make her site the best she can for the business she is looking for. i

My comments were a personal opinion of her site not at Penny herself, I would like to make that very clear here.

I might add as a note to Penny directly, there are several well known sites that are a wee bit too rah rah for me and I don't buy there either but nevertheless if they are honest and straighforward I wish them well in their endevour as I do you.

Sincerley XX Jeannine

Should have never entered this arena:D as I stated in my original post. I did see the full context before deleted, and I take no offense. I didn't mean to criticize Penny, and I hope she does all right. Actually thought I was being helpful. I can be a typical male pig, I admitted that. Just saying sex appeal does not work for me in marketing veggies. I watched a video that showed deformed tomatoes that looked like sexual organs to me, and it did not make me want to run out and eat a freshly picked tomato. If it works for some one else great. My last post on this thread, there are more important topics for sure.

Isn't it a great country when we all have choices - what to watch, what to buy, where to buy it, what to think of it! To each their own....and whatever works, I guess

Have to admit, that I'm still (just barely) on the negative side of the fence about this site. (WARNING: long drawn out, possibly assinine opinions. Proceed at your own risk!)

I'm going to give my full two cents worth, not because I think my opinion is all that important, but because I suspect others may either agree or disagree and that it may help Penny make the site better than it is.

Penny does seem to be a very open and adaptive person who is trying to balance making money, providing information and having some fun doing it all. So this is not a critique of Penny herself, but of some things that I personally like and dislike about the site.

Negatives first, just to get them over with.
The tomato/squash ★★★★★ thing, (they won't let me type the correct anatomical name :lol:) just seems like false advertising. It's a squash. Why call it a tomato? Maybe it's a joke? It seems like several of us are not only not getting it, but having a negative reaction, so she may want to reevaluate how it's presented?

Some of the info does not seems to be correct or seems to be exaggerated. One example is that I don't think most would describe indeterminate cherry tomatoes as "smaller bush type plants" that are perfect for containers or small spaces. My indeterminate cherries (and most of Penny's cherries are also indeterminate) grew all over the place and I wouldn't recommend them for container plantings. Determinate cherries, on the other hand, might be great for containers. (As would most any determinate tomatoes or dwarfs.)

Tomato horn worms do not lay eggs until they have turned into their adult moth form. Those hornworms that have eggs laid on them by wasps will not make it to the moth stage and therefore will not lay eggs.

Does the tree tomato really average a bushel of tomatoes? If so, Wow! It honestly sounds too good to be true and there is nothing on the site to back it up, so I will tend to form a negative opinion with that. If it does, then I would love to see some documentation and reviews from actual clients, otherwise it just brings down the believability of the site. (That may be my cynical side, but I don't think I'm the only one who is wary of these types of claims.)

Honestly, my real biggy, and others have also brought this up, is using the photos of others without permission. As a graphic artist, I have to say that this issue, more than any other, will keep me from buying anything or recommending the site until it is corrected. I suspect that Penny may not understand the importance of this. (as many people don't) It is stealing, plain and simple.

This in the only thing that I do feel is a major issue and hasn't been addressed yet. The irony is that the photos that seem to be Penny's own photos are actually as good or better than the ones that aren't hers. Hopefully, this will be corrected quickly.

If that one major flaw were corrected, then there are also many positives about the site. It is obvious that a lot of love went into creating it and as a southern girl, I appreciate a bit of showmanship and humor! The erotic veggie doesn't bother me one bit as long as it is accurately marketed.

I most appreciate the fact that she is trying to educate, even if some of the facts are a bit off. (That's something that, I'm sure, a lot of really knowledgeable people here would be happy to help her with!)

Also, we have first hand testimony that her product and her service are quite good which are two of the most important priorities of any seed company.

Okay, that's my fifty cents. (I went way over two cents) Anyone else?

I recieved a PM from Jennifer with a sincere apology, which impressed me a lot. I realized from it, that I owe Penny an apology, so Penny I appologize. While I meant what I said, that her marketing technique did not appeal to me, I could have said that in a less blunt and more friendly manner. Or better yet, I could have kept my big mouth shut. Mischka in his wiseness, strives to keep this a friendly place for all, and I was probably close to him slapping me upside the head for forgetting it.:surprised:

Penny's style is not my style, but I admire her for her quick corrections and pleasant response -- a lot of people would have been more defensive.

Also, living on the edge of the South, I have to point out that this country (and continent!) has such huge cultural differences from one end to another. I noticed that a lot of the most disapproving posters are from the pretty far North. Maybe Penny's style will enable her to introduce heirlooms to communities where there's little variety in terms of what's expected from a tomato, who knows?

Previous post deleted by myself. After careful consideration, I decided this one was treading a bit too close to stepping over the "Politics and Religion" boundary. Or something like that. -- PA2

Hey Gang,
Thanks again for all of the input.
I've given a lengthy answer but it has not been approved by the Moderators.
It is not fair if I can't answer the Thread honestly.
This is my First Amendment right.
Tomato-Ly Yours, Penny

[quote=Tomatoville: Contact Us]The following message was sent to you via the Tomatoville® Gardening Forums Contact Us form by PennyM ( [EMAIL="pennym@sc.rr.com"]mailto:pennym@sc.rr.com[/EMAIL] ).

--------------------------------

Hi Moderators.
I am very frustrated now...
After bending over backwards to correct ALL Tomato name change data that you brought to our attention in 2011...although very slight in most cases...I continue to be edited out and refused access to some forums.
Like the 'Members websites' forum.
Last year Mischka said that we needed to modify all incorrect names of varieties.
We've complied.
I have seen information continually contradicted by one 'Authorty' vs. another...for example simple things like if a Tomato is determinate...or indetermiante. I have the documentation on this.
Or how many days to maturity for certain varieties....between the alleged 'experts' in your forum. I have documentation of this.
After ardently working with Tatania and Craig to comply with all of the recommended name changes....although minor in nature...I'm still being blocked out of ceretain forums.
I don't want to hear about 'Copyrighted pictures'..unless EVERY Vendor in your recommended vendors list is held to the same standards. THEY ARE NOT!
I have manY pics of tomatoes on my Website that are exclusively ours.
And some of the few in question...have incorrect information on where they originated.
In one instance..IT IS OUR ORINGINAL PICTURE...that another seed vendor copied AND TOOK CREDIT FOR. And you've questioned the source of the picture.
We have documentation for this.
I feel that one Moderator in particular is blocking me out of even answering comments about our Penny's Tomato website.
I've consulted with our legal team and they feel that we are being treated unfairly.
Tomato-villians have repeatedly shown us support in most cases.
I'm asking that ALL of my submitted post be put up...if you feel you need to delete a line that doesn't comply with your regulations...do so.
But we're making a plea that we not be edited out completely.
I want to be a positive contributer to the Tomatoville forums. But I refuse to be treated unfairly.
When we get past this all of my correspondense can be potitive.
I have not recieved one answer back to my several emails to contact me or answer an issue.
Can we reslove this together...or should I take a legal recourse?
Thanks for your consideration,
Penny

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Referring Page: [URL]http://www.tomatoville.com/faq.php[/URL]
IP Address: 98.122.27.184
User Name: PennyM
User ID: 8172
Email: [EMAIL="pennym@sc.rr.com"]pennym@sc.rr.com[/EMAIL]

[/quote]