Lets talk sauce!

[brokenbar]

I am probably the most atypical tomato grower on the forum only growing tomatoes for sauce and drying. I have tomato rules…

Cherry tomatoes should be illegal to grow
I cannot understand why anyone would ever grow a dwarf anything
Tomatoes are red.

It has been debated on this forum the merits of different varieties to use for making sauce. I have studied this subject for years and have come to some conclusions:

It takes 5 to 6 pounds of raw tomatoes to make 1 quart of finished sauce. The logic says that it would take many more tomatoes to produce a quart of sauce if the tomatoes used contained more liquid, more seeds and more gel fraction than a “sauce specific” variety that is dry, almost seedless and contains very little gel.

Tomato varieties grown specifically for sauce should have an improved taste upon cooking. (There is a scientific reason for this which at the moment escapes me.) Many sauce tomatoes, like Costoluto Genovese are really lousy eating tomatoes and are very blah.

In Europe, specifically Italy, Spain and Portugal, sauce tomatoes have been grown for more than 300 years. You will always find a predominant variety being grown for sauce in each country with some variation for different regions. For instance, in Italy, they grow Costoluto Genovese, Costoluto Cantonese, Costoluto Sel Valenti, Costoluto Fiorentino and a couple more & all sauce tomatoes. “Costoluto” means loosely “fluted” or ribbed and all the Costoluto’s exhibit this shape. Centuries of experience have ended with a tomato that is perfect for an intended use.

I have conducted taste tests over the years using Costoluto Genovese alone, using a single variety of heart shaped tomato alone and the “Heinz 57 Varieties” method of throwing whatever tomatoes I had a lot of into the pot. My Husband grows all the weird colored tomatoes as well as a gazillion varieties of red tomatoes so I had a lot of variety to choose from.

I got about a 80% positive vote for the Costoluto Sauce and the others just managed a few votes each. I used my own marinara sauce recipe for each batch.

Was the sauce produced from hearts or other tomatoes awful? No…but the sauce cooked using the sauce specific Costoluto Genovese was thicker, richer had better color and texture and the taste was very unique.

I will give you that I am a maniac and have obviously thought about this more than the average tomato grower. I know what I want my finished sauce to look and taste like. I don’t want to have to process twice as many tomatoes to get a quart of sauce and I want a sauce that takes very little “cooking down” to arrive at a finished consistency.

Most growers are not as anal as I am and are probably perfectly happy with the sauce they produce. I only wanted to share my observations and my years of experience growing tomatoes just for sauce.

In other news, we are traveling a lot. Just returned from Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam and we will be heading to the Amazon next. We also are getting to remote archeological sites throughout South America.

My 2013 Mexican garden is done and I had a banner year. I have taken over growing the peppers and my outstanding variety was the HUGE sweet red pepper “Donkey Ears” from Serbia. 10” long and about 4” wide at the top and being slightly flattened. I will be growing these again. They were fabulous stuffed and roasted or diced into salsa. Just about the sweetest pepper we have ever grown. Plants were so loaded they required staking. Here is a link to a site for more information about these peppers. The “Canning” instructions will give you botulism dreams! http://palachinkablog.com/ajvar/ Hope everyone had a great garden year. Mary

[Redbaron]

Well I just tried snickers. It is a sauce tomato I got from Russia through Marina. The best sauce I ever made by leaps and bounds. Like you said, not the best fresh eating, but oh that sauce was good! I am growing a few other sauce tomatoes this year including Costoluto Genovese. I'll try them out too once I get a few ripe. We will see.

I do think you are right though, tomatoes bred for cooking are going to make a better sauce.

Wrong about cherries though. Sungold F1 is just that good.

[bower]

I'm not an experienced sauce maker at all, but I'm sure interested in learning which varieties are best for different aps.

Last year I had one paste tomato, Napoli a Fiaschetto, which is not very large (though not quite an illegal cherry!). I made a few pots of 'random reds' sauce, and there was a huge difference even just throwing a few Fiaschetto's in the pot - thickened it right up. It has a really rich tomato taste which i love, and was good fresh eating as well.

I froze many different kinds of tomato last year, and one thing I did during the winter was to slice the frozen tomatoes as a pizza topping. Some of them were great this way, and as good as using fresh. I used Anna Russian once, it looked beautiful but unfortunately the thick flesh had become tough from the freezing. So it seems like I will have to use my extra hearts for sauce, even if it is not the supreme choice.

Is Costuloto Genovese the one and only best, BrokenBar? What others do you like, that are tastier after cooking?

My son made me a tomato sauce last year, and used canned mango in it and I don't know what seasoning - I expected it to taste wierd but it didn't at all, and it was exceptionally good (no recipe... drat!).

[brokenbar]

Originally Posted by bower

I'm not an experienced sauce maker at all, but I'm sure interested in learning which varieties are best for different aps.

Last year I had one paste tomato, Napoli a Fiaschetto, which is not very large (though not quite an illegal cherry!). I made a few pots of 'random reds' sauce, and there was a huge difference even just throwing a few Fiaschetto's in the pot - thickened it right up. It has a really rich tomato taste which i love, and was good fresh eating as well.

I froze many different kinds of tomato last year, and one thing I did during the winter was to slice the frozen tomatoes as a pizza topping. Some of them were great this way, and as good as using fresh. I used Anna Russian once, it looked beautiful but unfortunately the thick flesh had become tough from the freezing. So it seems like I will have to use my extra hearts for sauce, even if it is not the supreme choice.

Is Costuloto Genovese the one and only best, BrokenBar? What others do you like, that are tastier after cooking?

My son made me a tomato sauce last year, and used canned mango in it and I don't know what seasoning - I expected it to taste wierd but it didn't at all, and it was exceptionally good (no recipe... drat!).

I use Costoluto Genovese and have added Costoluto Sel Valente also. They both come through the tomato press almost finished thickness. Neither are good fresh eating. I really like Costoluto Fiorentino but it is smaller than the other two so I have to have more plants. I use Fiorentino, along with Russo Sicilian Togeta and Zapotec for my salsa. All of these are pretty dry, little gel, hardly any seeds. Most of these, with the exception of Zapotec, are always for sale at the markets in Italy. Zapotec grows wild in Mexico.

Canned mango...now that's one I have not heard of, at least in tomato sauce. I do make mango salsa. Round us up a recipe...it intrigues me...

[FILMNET]

Marko sent me seed 2 years ago of these peppers Elephant ears, really seetw the best sweet pepper i have ever eat

[zeroma]

"I got about a 80% positive vote for the Costoluto Sauce and the others just managed a few votes each. I used my own marinara sauce recipe for each batch."

So what is your actual recipe? I think your tomato rules make sense, BrokenBar. But I do like me some chocolate cherries and sungold cherries for snacking!

[peebee]

Hi Brokenbar, many thanks again first of all for your generous tomato seed offer last year (or was it late 2011?).
You are mentioning the Donkey's Ear peppers but in the link to the blog on that fabulous sauce, it says Elephant's Ear--so are they one and the same?
This is the type of pepper I should grow, not that thin scrawny Carmen I wasted my energy on this year (see my posting in the peppers section). I wanted a big sweet juicy-skinned type, so this posting of yours confirmed that varieties from that part of Europe has the best. But will they grow well in my zone 10, So. CA, sort of coastal? The only ones I've had success with are the Anaheim, or Numex, types. Seeing that you grew these in Mexico gives me hope.
I enjoyed your post and the blog too, thanks!

[Father'sDaughter]

It's good to see you stopping by Mary!

My garden is struggling this year, but this past weekend I found myself with a large bowl full of very ripe pastes and not any more coming along. Since I didn't have anything else to do, I broke out my new Victorio Food Strainer and canned them. I usually make my purée with whatever mix of pastes I have available, but this time about 90 percent of what I had was Costoluto Genovese and Russo Sicilian Togeta.

Mary, you are so right! The five pints of purée I ended up with was so much better and richer than my usual mix of varieties. It'll make for some really good pizzas over the next year! I'm thinking I might just have to grow all the costolutos I can buy seeds for next year to see which do well in my garden.

[Dak]

Great post, I am learning so much about sauce here. Mary, you are a tomato sauce goddess, LOL. Truly, you have shared so much here, I do appreciate the free information that you post. From the generosity of one of the members here I was able to get Costoluto Genovese seeds that you distributed. Those plants are constantly producing fruit, it's just amazing. The sauce is wonderful. I have a fantasy of getting to the point of having a sauce and dried tomato business, this year I'm in the phase of choosing what varieties to grow and judiciously passing out tomatoes. So far, I've heard a lot of "best tomatoes I've ever eaten," which is quite encouraging.

So, tell us more about Donkey Ears, they look beautiful, any reliable seed source you recommend?

[brokenbar]

Originally Posted by peebee

Hi Brokenbar, many thanks again first of all for your generous tomato seed offer last year (or was it late 2011?).
You are mentioning the Donkey's Ear peppers but in the link to the blog on that fabulous sauce, it says Elephant's Ear--so are they one and the same?
This is the type of pepper I should grow, not that thin scrawny Carmen I wasted my energy on this year (see my posting in the peppers section). I wanted a big sweet juicy-skinned type, so this posting of yours confirmed that varieties from that part of Europe has the best. But will they grow well in my zone 10, So. CA, sort of coastal? The only ones I've had success with are the Anaheim, or Numex, types. Seeing that you grew these in Mexico gives me hope.
I enjoyed your post and the blog too, thanks!

It is called both which gets confusing...I am Gulf coastal Mexico and so zone should be similar. These were big plants but the peppers just weighed them down. I used those worthless tomato cages on some and they actually did a great job which they never did with my 7 foot tall tomatoes! The Donkey ears are grown all over the Mediterranean apparently so they should do well for you. The blog with the method of canning just cracked me up...I would kill my family I am sure! They don't can much in Mexico. i was showing my neighbor how to make sour pickles (fermented) and I ended up with a crowd...they love them but add peppers and their pickles are mucho caliente! They mostly dry everything and they salt a lot of the fish they catch.

[brokenbar]

Originally Posted by Dak

Great post, I am learning so much about sauce here. Mary, you are a tomato sauce goddess, LOL. Truly, you have shared so much here, I do appreciate the free information that you post. From the generosity of one of the members here I was able to get Costoluto Genovese seeds that you distributed. Those plants are constantly producing fruit, it's just amazing. The sauce is wonderful. I have a fantasy of getting to the point of having a sauce and dried tomato business, this year I'm in the phase of choosing what varieties to grow and judiciously passing out tomatoes. So far, I've heard a lot of "best tomatoes I've ever eaten," which is quite encouraging.

So, tell us more about Donkey Ears, they look beautiful, any reliable seed source you recommend?

If you can wait until about December, I will be sending seed for the Donkey ears home with my son and he can satisfy seed requests. I can't mail them from Mexico because they just go missing... They really are great peppers and held up really well when chopped or diced. I hate mushy salsa!

[Dak]

How exciting! There's something so wonderful about dreaming about next seasons varieties. Thanks!

[Dak]

Brokenbar, how do you process your tomatoes? Do you roast your tomatoes first, then process? I'm trying to decide which I like better.

[brokenbar]

Originally Posted by zeroma

"I got about a 80% positive vote for the Costoluto Sauce and the others just managed a few votes each. I used my own marinara sauce recipe for each batch."

So what is your actual recipe? I think your tomato rules make sense, BrokenBar. But I do like me some chocolate cherries and sungold cherries for snacking!

Mary’s Marinara Sauce

5 gallons processed tomatoes (no skins, no seeds.)
6 Cloves Garlic Minced
4 Smallest Cans Tomato Paste
2 Pounds Sweet Italian Sausage
2 Pounds Ground Beef
½ Cup Red wine Vinegar
2 Pound Sliced Mushrooms (fresh or canned)
4 Large Carrots Peeled & Grated
6 Large Bell Peppers, Any Color, Seeds Removed, Diced
6 Tablespoons Italian Seasoning (or 2 Tablespoons each of fresh Basel, Oregano, Parsley)
2 Cups Sugar
¼ Cup Olive Oil
4 Tablespoons Salt
¾ Cup Lime Juice


Bring tomato sauce to boil. Lower heat and simmer until liquid is reduced by half.
Add tomato paste, stir well.

Saute sausage, ground beef. Drain off grease thoroughly. Saute onion, peppers mushrooms (if fresh mushrooms) garlic and carrots in olive oil until translucent.
Add meats and vegetables to sauce mixture. Add all spices, salt, sugar, vinegar and lime juice to tomato mixture. Simmer 20 minutes on VERY LOW HEAT (be careful…this is thick and will scorch easily.) Fill appropriate number of “2-quart volume” freezer containers or process quarts, 90 minutes at 15 pounds in pressure canner for quarts (the time and lbs is for my area, above 4,000 feet.) THIS MUST BE PRESSURE CANNED if using jars. The meats in it make it unsafe to just hot water bath can.

The lime juice and vinegar are what keep this sauce tasting very fresh after freezing and canning. They keep the ingredients from breaking down. The carrots neutralize the acidity.

This is a robust and flavorful sauce. It is my own recipe that I have used for more than 20 years.

[brokenbar]

Originally Posted by Dak

Brokenbar, how do you process your tomatoes? Do you roast your tomatoes first, then process? I'm trying to decide which I like better.

I used to roast them but I did not think it made much difference except it made a lot more work! I just run them through my electric tomato mill.