Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 2, 2012   #1
Boutique Tomatoes
Tomatovillian™
 
Boutique Tomatoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northeast Wisconsin, Zone 5a
Posts: 1,081
Default Mountain Merit?

As my interests have been changing a bit I've gotten curious about some of the current hybrid varieties out there as a starting point for some breeding experiments. I was looking at some articles on Dr. Randy Gardner's work and see the descriptions of Mountain Merit, a large fruited determinate type, which has the Ph-2 and Ph-3 genes combined plus resistance to verticillium wilt, races 1, 2, and 3 of fusarium wilt, root knot nematodes, and TSWV.

The press on it goes back several years and I saw Bejo Seeds listed as the licensee, however they don't currently list it in their catalog.

I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone knew any more about it? The Mountain Magic and Plum Regal varieties that Dr. Gardner developed are available, but are both small fruited types.
Boutique Tomatoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2, 2012   #2
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 14,526
Default

Yes Mark, there are some large fruited varieties that Randy has developed and I've trialed a few of them, but the person who knows most about the newer ones is Fusion, and if he sees your title, which I assume he will, I'm sure he'll share what he knows with you.

Bejo does not sell seeds from their site, they're just distributors based in the Netherlands as well in W NYS as well.

Randy has been retired for a few years from NCSU at Fletcher, but is still active with his breeding programs, last I knew. Which reminds me that I owe him an e-mail and totally forgot until right now.
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2, 2012   #3
Boutique Tomatoes
Tomatovillian™
 
Boutique Tomatoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northeast Wisconsin, Zone 5a
Posts: 1,081
Default

I knew they were distributers and not involved in direct sales, but when I couldn't turn up any information regarding sales for the variety I decided to check with them and that's when I found it wasn't listed in their offerings.

The page here lists Bejo as the licensee for the variety. http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/fletcher/pro...ses/index.html

I know I can possibly get material from NCSU with a MTA or similar agreement but I was curious as to why something that sounds so promising hasn't come onto the market after the announcements in 2010. Considering how many growers have problems with late blight in particular.

I'll wait to see if Fusion weighs in.
Boutique Tomatoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2, 2012   #4
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 14,526
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marktutt View Post
I knew they were distributers and not involved in direct sales, but when I couldn't turn up any information regarding sales for the variety I decided to check with them and that's when I found it wasn't listed in their offerings.

The page here lists Bejo as the licensee for the variety. http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/fletcher/pro...ses/index.html

I know I can possibly get material from NCSU with a MTA or similar agreement but I was curious as to why something that sounds so promising hasn't come onto the market after the announcements in 2010. Considering how many growers have problems with late blight in particular.

I'll wait to see if Fusion weighs in.
Mountain Merit is not the only large one with ph2 and ph3 genes/

Here's what has happened in the past with Bejo; they just have had problems with F1 seed production with others and if I had to guess I'd say that's the problem now.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16774

I think there was one person here at Tville, I ran across the thread, who did get seeds from a Bejo rep but of course he was in no position to share with others b'c I'm sure not many seeds were sent.

If I could find that thread again, well I think you can by doing a search here for posts with Mountain Merit and I'm pretty sure that thread will pop up.
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2012   #5
maf
Tomatovillian™
 
maf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: England
Posts: 329
Default

Mountain Merit is now listed at Johnny's, but the status says "Backordered until 01/16/13".
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-8853-mo...-merit-f1.aspx
maf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2012   #6
Boutique Tomatoes
Tomatovillian™
 
Boutique Tomatoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northeast Wisconsin, Zone 5a
Posts: 1,081
Default

Thanks! I got some from Twilley's thanks to a tip from Mashman, they had in in stock a few weeks ago http://www.twilleyseed.com/.
Boutique Tomatoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2012   #7
Fusion_power
Tomatovillian™
 
Fusion_power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,620
Default

Mountain Merit is an effort to get a larger fruited highly disease tolerant tomato out of the existing NC breeding lines. It has genes ph2, ph3, mi, sw5, i, i2, i3, ve, and sp. The problem is that some of these genes are located so close together that there have been difficulties getting them onto the same chromosome. Ph3 and Sw5 in particular were a problem. Mountain Merit has the above genes but many of them are in heterozygous state meaning that any crosses will segregate and efforts to combine the traits into a stable line will be unsuccessful.

Here are the genetics of the two lines:
NC123S - mi, i, i2, i3, ve, sw5
NC1 Celebr - i, i2, ve, ebr, ph2, ph3

As you can see, Mountain Merit is homozygous for i, i2, and ve and will segregate for ph2, ph3, sw5, and mi.

I talked to Randy Gardener 3 weeks ago about a line that was developed in Ohio that finally managed to get sw5 and ph3 onto the same chromosome. He does not have it but said he would inquire if he could get a sample. To give you an idea how difficult this is, 1152 plants were grown and 3 of them turned out to have desirable traits including homozygous sw5 and ph3.

Does this mean you shouldn't try a few crosses? No, but it means you will be working against long odds. I would suggest getting some seed of Iron Lady which contains 2 genes for septoria tolerance. Between Mountain Merit and Iron Lady you would have most of the major diseases and pests covered with the exception of Bacterial Spot.

For some more information on tomatoes and disease tolerance, you might read from links in the Winter Reading thread. Of particular interest is the Ashrafi article from Penn State about breeding for early blight tolerance. There is a variety available from TGRC that has sw7 which is a new gene for spotted wilt tolerance and there is info about mi9 which conveys nematode tolerance that does not break down at high temps. Interestingly, sw7 does not seem to be a true disease tolerance gene, rather, it seems to work by making insects avoid the plants that have the gene.

If you are interested in some partially advanced breeding stock, I have F2 seed from a cross of my Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball which Randy Gardner crossed with a disease tolerant red selection. I have not verified the genetics, but it probably has ph2, ph3, and a couple of early blight tolerance genes.

The Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball line is unique in conveying significantly increased fruitfulness. Doubling the crop is typical of the line. To my knowledge, there is no other line available that has this unique ability.

I am working with some lines that I hope will combine a few more genes to the above list. I don't want sp (determinate) so I am going to exclude it. I do want j1 (jointless) and I want to add in some genes for septoria tolerance. I also want to increase the sweetness and total flavor so I am adding in the sucr gene and will be breeding from some very high flavor heirloom lines.

DarJones

Last edited by Fusion_power; December 16, 2012 at 02:13 PM.
Fusion_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2012   #8
Boutique Tomatoes
Tomatovillian™
 
Boutique Tomatoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Northeast Wisconsin, Zone 5a
Posts: 1,081
Default

I readily admit my knowledge of the genetics is extremely limited and I've just in the last year starting reading up on it. (I am working my way through some of the Winter Reading) It reminds me that Biology class was a looong time ago.

In my current level of amateur understanding, I'm thinking that there might be the possibility of using some of the disease resistant hybrids as ingredients in a three way cross to come up with F1's that combines disease resistance with better flavor (and just maybe some stripes). Given the complexity of trying to get all the genes in a stable OP variety I'm resigned to the fact that this likely won't happen.

It's just a concept at this point though. I've probably got at least 13 more years before I can retire to be a tomato farmer in a warmer climate where disease is more of an issue, so I've got time to experiment. ;-)

Thanks for the pointer to Iron Lady, I'll have to look at that one. I have read your descriptions of Big Beef x EPB and did order some Big Beef seeds from Twilley intending to give that cross a try myself as a possible ingredient in the genetic soup.

I do love the knowledge you share regarding tomato genetics. Since I can't play with plants in the winter following up on your posts is a great way to escape the bits and bytes of my day job until spring sowing time comes!

Mark
Boutique Tomatoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16, 2012   #9
moon1234
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 53
Default

Bejo owns Seedway so most of their line is available from them. If you don't see it in the catalog, then call them up. I have obtained items not in Seedway's catalog, but listed in Bejo's lineup.

For Mountain Merit, look here: http://www.seedway.com/store/Pages/P...spx?pid=9905NT

I planted Mountain Magic last year. Had no problems except for Septoria on them. Surprise, Surprise it was one of the few things they are NOT resistant to.

Johnny's gets any Bejo varieties through a bulk purchase from Seedway and then repackages into smaller lots. You will usually get better pricing from Seedway if you can use larger amount of seed.
moon1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1, 2013   #10
Mashman
Tomatovillian™
 
Mashman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MA
Posts: 130
Default

I would appreciate feedback on Mountain Merit's Flavor and Production from anyone that had a chance to grow it this year. Didn't have a chance to get the transplants in this year and considering growing it next season.

Thanks in advance.

Michael
Mashman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1, 2013   #11
tsipgolf12
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Western North Carolina
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mashman View Post
I would appreciate feedback on Mountain Merit's Flavor and Production from anyone that had a chance to grow it this year. Didn't have a chance to get the transplants in this year and considering growing it next season.

Thanks in advance.

Michael
I grew Mountain Merit along with Defiant and several other Hybrids. Fusarium and grey mold and some late blight got all of them except the Mountain Merit and one Defiant. They both produced well. Mountain Merit had larger fruit than Defiant and a much superior taste to any of the other Hybrids( Goliath& Bella Rosa). Mountain Merit is still blooming and setting fruit today while the rest of the garden is empty. Next year Mountain Merit will be the only hybrid I grow and I am seriously considering using it as rootstock for my first attempt at Heirloom grafts along with Floralina from B54red's fusarium trials and RST-04-105 from Aclum. Grafting looks to be here to stay.

RWG
tsipgolf12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1, 2013   #12
nathan125
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: america
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusion_power View Post
Mountain Merit is an effort to get a larger fruited highly disease tolerant tomato out of the existing NC breeding lines. It has genes ph2, ph3, mi, sw5, i, i2, i3, ve, and sp. The problem is that some of these genes are located so close together that there have been difficulties getting them onto the same chromosome. Ph3 and Sw5 in particular were a problem. Mountain Merit has the above genes but many of them are in heterozygous state meaning that any crosses will segregate and efforts to combine the traits into a stable line will be unsuccessful.

Here are the genetics of the two lines:
NC123S - mi, i, i2, i3, ve, sw5
NC1 Celebr - i, i2, ve, ebr, ph2, ph3

As you can see, Mountain Merit is homozygous for i, i2, and ve and will segregate for ph2, ph3, sw5, and mi.

I talked to Randy Gardener 3 weeks ago about a line that was developed in Ohio that finally managed to get sw5 and ph3 onto the same chromosome. He does not have it but said he would inquire if he could get a sample. To give you an idea how difficult this is, 1152 plants were grown and 3 of them turned out to have desirable traits including homozygous sw5 and ph3.

Does this mean you shouldn't try a few crosses? No, but it means you will be working against long odds. I would suggest getting some seed of Iron Lady which contains 2 genes for septoria tolerance. Between Mountain Merit and Iron Lady you would have most of the major diseases and pests covered with the exception of Bacterial Spot.

For some more information on tomatoes and disease tolerance, you might read from links in the Winter Reading thread. Of particular interest is the Ashrafi article from Penn State about breeding for early blight tolerance. There is a variety available from TGRC that has sw7 which is a new gene for spotted wilt tolerance and there is info about mi9 which conveys nematode tolerance that does not break down at high temps. Interestingly, sw7 does not seem to be a true disease tolerance gene, rather, it seems to work by making insects avoid the plants that have the gene.

If you are interested in some partially advanced breeding stock, I have F2 seed from a cross of my Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball which Randy Gardner crossed with a disease tolerant red selection. I have not verified the genetics, but it probably has ph2, ph3, and a couple of early blight tolerance genes.

The Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball line is unique in conveying significantly increased fruitfulness. Doubling the crop is typical of the line. To my knowledge, there is no other line available that has this unique ability.

I am working with some lines that I hope will combine a few more genes to the above list. I don't want sp (determinate) so I am going to exclude it. I do want j1 (jointless) and I want to add in some genes for septoria tolerance. I also want to increase the sweetness and total flavor so I am adding in the sucr gene and will be breeding from some very high flavor heirloom lines.

DarJones
Dar,
can you give me some more info on your big beef cross, it sounds pretty nice. how is fruit size and maturity?
nathan125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1, 2013   #13
Fusion_power
Tomatovillian™
 
Fusion_power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,620
Default

Nathan, it is very similar to Eva Purple Ball. The line I am growing was deliberately selected to resemble EPB but to pick up some nematode and fusarium tolerance from Big Beef.
Fusion_power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2, 2013   #14
cecilsgarden1958
Tomatovillian™
 
cecilsgarden1958's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: swPA
Posts: 502
Default

Nathan: I received some seed from Fusion for BBxEPB the other year. It was very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan125 View Post
Dar,
can you give me some more info on your big beef cross, it sounds pretty nice. how is fruit size and maturity?
__________________
Hybrids Rule, Heirlooms Drool!
cecilsgarden1958 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2, 2013   #15
travis
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Evansville, IN
Posts: 2,550
Default





Top photo is Big Beef x EPB F6 grown in my patch in 2013.

Bottom photo is same line grown in a friend's garden, same year.

(The purple tomatoes in bottom photo are Not Purple Strawberry.)

Sorry my poor quality photo is from a cheap smart phone, and you cannot see the tiny white speckles in the skin of the fruit. This characteristic mimics or repeats from EPB. However, this line does not shatter (fall from the vine) when the full ripe, an improvement over EPB.

Last edited by travis; October 2, 2013 at 08:22 AM.
travis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:04 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2014 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★