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Old August 15, 2006   #1
nctomatoman
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Default Amishland at it again!

http://www.amishlandseeds.com/russian_tomatoes.htm

Orange Russian 117 - " This gorgeous tomato hails from the famous seed bank of the former Soviet Union." This seed company has been pedaling false histories and descriptions for as long as I can remember....buyer beware!
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Old August 15, 2006   #2
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Craig, I saw that in the Spring and also saw the blurb on Andrey's Orange-1 , which I've grown and listed in the SSE Yearbooks, and others, and I couldn't agree with you more that she often distorts backgrounds, sometimes changes names and more.

We've been thru this before but perhaps there are folks here who don't know that there's a real problem with Amishland, and this goes back several years when she was calling Green Grape Eenie Weenie Greenie or something similar and calling Cherokee Purple Native American, for example. Sigh.
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Old August 15, 2006   #3
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As I've already said, changing the name of an existing variety with the sole intent of making it appear to be a new one that is exclusive to the seller really ticks me off!!

Congrats to Amishland for being the first seller listed in the Tomatoville® Blacklist of disreputable seed sources.

This list will be maintained and updated as needed by the moderators and myself, as a service to our members.
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Old August 16, 2006   #4
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As a service, could someone list the tomatoes she has changed the name of or misrepresented so we can better understand what those tomatoes really should be called and maybe a little corrected background on each?

For example, Andrey sent me Black Elephant and it has potato leaves and not regular leaves as Lisa describes it. Otherwise, her description is somewhat applicable with regard to size, color, and growing habit. However, I suspect they are two separate varieties and I would like to share the Black Elephant seeds I've saved.

Also, I grew her "Lancaster County Pink" only until 100% of the seedlings showed regular leaf instead of potato leaf as per Lisa's blurb. And the seedlings looked almost identical to the two Amish Paste I already had in the ground from two separate sources.

Those are the only two things relative to Amishland Seeds I can share, but I would like to see more specifics from other folks about her alleged crimes against tomatoes.

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Old August 16, 2006   #5
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What has happened in the past (BTV - before Tomatoville) is that errors or misrepresentations would get posted at GW, someone would email her, she would argue a bit and complain, then begrudgingly change things to what they should be - so over the last few years she's fixed some things. When I get a bit more time I will check it to see if I recognize any problems - I am sure others here will find some odd things as well. I think that she hopes that we lose interest and stop looking, then she starts peddling the BS again!
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Old August 18, 2006   #6
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I looked at some of the reviews of Amishland and wondered about the comments that she had tomatoes that were offered by no other company. If a variety is stable then the next year every person who saved seed is offering it. Usually a company will have a few years lead time on other companies when a new variety is introduced, but after that all the seed companies will have it.

I think Krasnador Titan is a good example. After the positve review in Mother Earth the few companies that offered it were sold out almost immediately. Next year every company will have it

I think that anyone could save seed from an early variety like Siberian and call it First of Season or some such nonsense and say they had an "exclusive." Sioux could become Apache or Comanche but it still would be the same variety. Especially for those breeding new varieties, provenance is important.

I appreciate that she is running a business but this certainly creates chaos in the tomato world.
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Old August 18, 2006   #7
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I look at it this way ...

If you're selling ten of something for a price higher than others are selling thirty of the same thing, then you'd better have a customer base that believes all your hype.

Caviat Emptor

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Old August 18, 2006   #8
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I think Krasnador Titan is a good example. After the positve review in Mother Earth the few companies that offered it were sold out almost immediately. Next year every company will have it


I didn't know any company was offering it. Which ones offered it?

It was Brook who praised it highly in MEN and he got his seeds from M. Belfer, as I had. And it was M. Belfer who sold seeds, at a rather high price I might add, to others thru MEN.

I grew it and thought it was awful, the hardest fruits I've ever grown and when I listed it in the SSE Yearbook I said I thought its best use was for canning and not fresh eating.

Marina then told me that the second year she grew it she didn't think much of it either.

So knowing Krasnodor Titans as I do I can't see any huge demand for it once the word gets around to others, and it has, at least at GW when several saw it on my grow list a few years ago and when I reported back. It's not one that I sent to any of the seed companies that I send the best of my best to for trial.

And I don't think Brook would praise it highly again either.
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Old August 18, 2006   #9
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Baker Creek and Sand Hill both offered KT last year and I think Sand Hill did the year before but can't remember for sure. Either way, it is offered by 2 commercial sources at least.

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Old August 18, 2006   #10
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I was offering an example of how a supplier cannot have an exclusive on a variety for more than a year or two.

I haven't grown Krasnadors because the sites were sold out this year. I am happy to know that I didn't waste my money on an overhyped tomato that doesn't produce good fruit.

Baker Creek touted this in their catalog: "This rare Russian heirloom was featured in Mother Earth News in Oct/Nov 2003. The large red fruit are renowned for rich, full-bodied, old-fashioned flavor. Taste this tomato, and you will see why families in Krasnador have been saving this variety since the 1880's. Growers rave about how productive and beautiful this tomato is."

Most of us have to go by a catalog's description. Maybe there should be other companies who receive a big thumbs down for the descriptions in their catalogs.

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Old August 18, 2006   #11
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Most of us have to go by a catalog's description. Maybe there should be other companies who receive a big thumbs down for the descriptions in their catalogs.


Absolutely, and it's something that has been talked about as long as I've been in this heirloom tomato field.

But at least Jere's description names the tomato variety correctly as does Glenn's, and that's good.

Commercial places are in the position of oft times exagerating a varietie's traits to sell more seed, as we all know, and that's why it's good that there are several message sites where one can ask about varieties and get answers from folks who have grown the variety.

So yes, some places are much more accurate than others.

And neither Baker Creek nor Sandhill come close to what Amishland has the capacity to do, and has done, with some burbs/

When I recommend companies I always include accuracy of blurbs and pictures when that's part of a site, as part of what one should look for, along with seed purity, age of seeds sold and service. No place is perfect when dealing with OP seeds, but some are much better than others.
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Old December 30, 2006   #12
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Wow. The story behind Amishland's "NEW MAO CHINESE UKRAINIAN TOMATO " is extraordinary.

Wonder if Hollywood has picked up an option on the saga.

NMCUT is just one of about a dozen varieties on that page for which Amishland has an "EXCLUSIVE" or is the "ONLY USA SEED SOURCE!"
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Old December 31, 2006   #13
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So what do you suggest when it's the head of SODC and a seed company (serious conflicts of interest issues arising out of this combo) who decides to change the name of something because 'it's too long'???? Others in the trade are copying; after all this person (Jim Ternier) is in a position of authority, don't ya know.

Eg:
Silvery Fir minus the Tree
Brandysweet minus the Plum

I won't go into the crap that's been sent on to poor Glenn Drowns re Cdn varieties and history.

It may not seems as bad as what Amishland is doing perhaps, but I feel that it is or may be more difficult to deal with because of this purported 'authority'.

Jennifer
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Old December 31, 2006   #14
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Jennifer,

Why not start a separate topic about Seeds of Diversity Canada so you can vent properly? I did see that Jim Ternier is VP of SODC and also runs Prairie Garden Seeds which seems to be a very small outfit with no online ordering system. But I can only see what's been posted online and not in printed materials put out by SODC. Hmm.

I looked up SFT and found it hasn't lost its "tree" at least on the website:
http://www.seeds.ca/hpd/cv.php?qtype...very&action=Go
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Old December 31, 2006   #15
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Thanks for the reply.

No, Jim is now President of SODC as well as being coordinator of the "Canadian Tomato Project" (biting my tongue mightily here). If you check his website as well as other stuff he has done on the SODC website (the database is NOT his doing) you'll see the name changes. You'll also see his listing of registered Ag Can varieties by their slang names, not the correct ones. Eg, Charlie's Red Staker not simply the registered Red Staker. As well, Doucet's Red Plum---AgCan would NEVER allow public breeders' names to be used in government-bred varieties. Full stop.

Don't see need for another thread. Let's keep incorrect histories and names in the same thread per the extraordinary efforts by Carolyn in the past.

Just my thoughts though,
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