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Old July 6, 2009   #1
frogsleap farm
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Default OSU Blue observations

This is my first year growing OSU blue, and I've encountered a few surprizes. It was one of the first tomato plants to flower in my garden, though fruit development has lagged behind a few of the other "earlies". The anthocyanin accumulation in vegetative parts is very strong early, and then fades rapidly. The purple pigmentation now remains only in the base of the stem. Pigmentation in the fruit is very light dependent (see photo). This plant is on the west edge of a raised bed, with the top of the fruit getting exposed full sun for a couple hours late in the day. Where fruit is shaded all day by foliage, pigmentation is muted. I've made several crosses now with OSU Blue/P20 as both the male and female parent (other photo). The seedling "anthocyanin phenotype" is so strong, I think with OSU as the female I can segregate selfs from F1 crosses - plus I emasculated early. Most of the OSU male parent crosses are to PL females (e.g. PPPxPP "C"). One last observation, OSU Blue appears to be a Septoria magnet.
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Old July 7, 2009   #2
Tom Wagner
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Frogleaper's quotes followed by my responses....

Quote:
This is my first year growing OSU blue, and I've encountered a few surprises
I picked up the rate of hybridization of the P-20 Blue the last couple of years. And I, too, encounter surprises.

Quote:
It was one of the first tomato plants to flower in my garden, though fruit development has lagged behind a few of the other "earlies".
I notice also that it forms fruit early


Quote:
The anthocyanin accumulation in vegetative parts is very strong early, and then fades rapidly. The purple pigmentation now remains only in the base of the stem.
I have found that somewhat the opposite, the stems remain purplish.

Quote:
Pigmentation in the fruit is very light dependent (see photo). This plant is on the west edge of a raised bed, with the top of the fruit getting exposed full sun for a couple hours late in the day. Where fruit is shaded all day by foliage, pigmentation is muted.
Yes, light makes for purple, pure and simple.

Quote:
I've made several crosses now with OSU Blue/P20 as both the male and female parent (other photo). The seedling "anthocyanin phenotype" is so strong, I think with OSU as the female I can segregate selfs from F1 crosses
I make crosses in different directions and can see the purple trait in the stem even when the male parent is P-20, but it is muted a bit. The selfs and backcrosses are and will be important to breed away from the compact mechanical harvester type of foliage.

Quote:
One last observation, OSU Blue appears to be a Septoria magnet.
I have to agree with you that the foliage of P-20 seems to draw foliar diseases.

I seem to have lost the ability to put pictures on forum messages, but if you go to my blog, pasted somewhere below, I have posted a couple of photos: One of the P-20 and another of a cross of Blue 20 X Woolly Green Zebra. I weeded right after the photos to assuage my guilt.

That last cross will produce hybrid F-1 fruit that probably won't be that interesting. But the saved seed (F-2) will segregate for stripes, green flesh, woolly foliage, blue anthocyanins, indeterminate vines, etc.

I will know more about the CrossTalk elements of the breeding work later. I am trying to figure out what a true breeding green flesh/anthocyanin fruit would look like. Since I have a myriad of crosses, 4-way crosses going on, I will not have conclusive evidence of the value of such breeding work for a few generations of breeding and selfing.


http://tater-mater.blogspot.com/

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Old July 7, 2009   #3
frogsleap farm
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Tom - interesting that we are seeing pretty striking differences in vegetative accumulation of anthocyanin in OSU Blue/P20. Note the "blue fruit" at the base of this plant and the "normal" foliage pigmentation. I wonder if anthocyanin accumulation in vegetative tissue is both developmentally and environmentally regulated? We are now in a reliably 80-85 degree day, 65-70 degree night cylcle. Are your temperatures cooler than this? Another observation this afternoon is plant to plant variation in the number of fruits per truss, note the L. pimpinellifolium type truss on this OSU Blue plant.
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Old July 8, 2009   #4
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frogsleap and Tom -
My experience is similar. Cooler temperatures and strong, direct light bring out the color. My plant habit appears slightly different, though that might be culture. I would expect the color to be partially dominant, but we'll have to grow out the F2 to know. Sounds like that's where you are, Tom. I am trying crosses to both yellow and red tomatoes using OSU as the mother. I wonder if we'll see anything resembling the peruvian complex parent in the next generation since they probably used a bridge species and who knows what else. Here are a couple of photos. What do you guys think we should try?

Lee
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Old July 8, 2009   #5
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Wow, what a tomato, where do you lay your hands on seed for these?
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Old July 9, 2009   #6
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Quote:
Cooler temperatures and strong, direct light bring out the color
I am still trying to find out why I am getting such an array of expression of the blue coloration in the immature fruit, stems and leaves. One of the areas I am growing the tomatoes is up in the mountains, so high the clouds are nestled around the peaks and the clouds drift by the greenhouse and field plots. Misting nearly all day and it hampered my potato breeding work in the field. So I worked in the greenhouse taking notes and picking the early ripe tomatoes from the first earlies.
None of the first earlies have blue genes.
Yesterday and today I took some more photos of the P-20 Blues and the hybrids. I made a series of crosses: Hybrid blues to hybrid blues of different fruit colors and shapes. By making these crosses, fully one quarter of the progeny will be true breeding blues with a variety of other characteristics floating around. I see that many of my backcrosses are taking; A yellow segregate of the selfed population of (Match X Green Zebra) X Blue with a fruit of this hybrid bred back to blue. The seed will include half true blues and half carrying the blue gene. The need for homozygous blues is important to get the full expression of blue.

I see some great hybrid vigor in most of the blue crosses. I am putting white labels on the tomato trusses to aid the picking process later. I often look at the tomato plants without referring to the pedigree and can almost almost identify the blue crosses just by looking at the foliage and fruit shoulders. I then look at my map to see which hybrid it is.

Some of you know my variety Green Sleeves, aka, Green Sausage. The crosses I am making using this background will allow more light to penetrate the narrow leaves and hanging basket type vines. By making the fruit longer and with more shoulder color, the blue should be spectacular.

My friend, Woody, asked what color the blue and Green Zebra crosses will turn out to be. Turquoise? I told him I was looking for a Sherwin Williams paint type. A globe half covered in paint. Imagine a green zebra type with a blue shoulder.....What?....A Blue Zebra?

Quote:
Wow, what a tomato, where do you lay your hands on seed for these?
That question is from Frog of Kent, England. My response is that I won't be sending any of the original seed of P-20 out, but time will tell if any of the segregations merit a release. I will be showing PowerPoint photos of the blues, the hybrids and seedlings showing the segregation of blue stems. Frog should try to drive from Kent to Oxford, England this October 24 to view this presentation first hand. I will be addressing how such germplasm may be made more easily available. I should be close to an answer by that time after my many workshops in Europe this Fall. In fact Oxford will be my last stop. There is room for only 25 attendees as I take it.

When I get around to it I will post some more photos on my blog.

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Old July 9, 2009   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wagner View Post
That question is from Frog of Kent, England. My response is that I won't be sending any of the original seed of P-20 out, but time will tell if any of the segregations merit a release. I will be showing PowerPoint photos of the blues, the hybrids and seedlings showing the segregation of blue stems. Frog should try to drive from Kent to Oxford, England this October 24 to view this presentation first hand. I will be addressing how such germplasm may be made more easily available. I should be close to an answer by that time after my many workshops in Europe this Fall. In fact Oxford will be my last stop. There is room for only 25 attendees as I take it.

When I get around to it I will post some more photos on my blog.

Tom Wagner
That sounds great Tom, I shall pencil it into my diary. Is there a need to book if only 25 can attend?
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Old July 9, 2009   #8
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I am putting more and more effort into the blue tomato thing.
I have people organizing events for me as I write......
I am hoping to provide an extension of the workshop off site in case of too many folks showing up.

http://www.patnsteph.net/weblog/2009...nd-tom-wagner/

I think the location below would a fine venue for tomato and potato discussion topics

The University of Oxford Botanic Garden
Rose Lane
Oxford OX1 4AZ

For a preview of some of the PowerPoint presentations I am putting together...go to:
http://tater-mater.blogspot.com/
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wz6KH09KtY...,+2009+030.JPG

The link shows a cross of Blue P-20 to Woolly Green Zebra and the plants developing from a variety of locations throughout Washington are doing splendid.

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Old July 12, 2009   #9
goodwin
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Nice clusters, and they are beginning to ripen.
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Old July 31, 2009   #10
frogsleap farm
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Default Tasting results

My first OSU Blue ripe fruit harvested and sampled today. This was just a few days behind Stupice, so pretty darned early. Flavor was nothing to brag about, but not bad. I've got crosses set to some tasty partners, so let's see where that goes. There's a little bite to the anthocyanin rich skin, but you have to be looking for it to notice.
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Old August 3, 2009   #11
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That is stunning. I'd love to see this purple skin on other coloured tomatoes.
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Old October 19, 2009   #12
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Frogsleap Farm,

Curious on your results for:

Quote:
Most of the OSU male parent crosses are to PL females (e.g. PPPxPP "C")
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/PPP_x_PP_%22C%22

Some good flavour genes in this one - even "A" and "B" were good:

“A” approx GDD: 1460

4.5 oz./130 g. last to ripen, not a heavy producer
Nice tomatoes, but not quite the heavy weight as “C”, slightly less flavour
But my notes from Sept. 11 say “yum” and Sept. 9 – softer, more mellow vague sweetness

“B” approx. GDD: 1300

6.5 oz./180 g. first to ripen, good production
Much sweeter than “C”, good but less balanced flavoured
More 2006 Notes: mildly sweet, very juicy clear skin (Aug. 21)

“C” approx. GDD: 1460

10.5 oz./300 g. one ripened mid August, then nothing until today, not a heavy producer, but good size
Really nice texture and complex, deep, sweet/tart flavour; meaty and juicy
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Old October 20, 2009   #13
Tom Wagner
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Not much time to type as I am vacationing on the Isle of Man right now.

My photos of Blue P-20 crossed to other varieties were among the favorites among the workshop attendees. I think the new varieties created out of the blue OSU line will be more significant than the original.

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Old October 20, 2009   #14
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The pic of the ripening tomato in post 9 looks a lot like that odd variety Orange Flesh Purple Smudge.

Is it possible that it comes from someone that used this OSU Blue for breeding ?? Just curious as that variety has gotten a good amount of publicity this year.

Carol
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Old October 22, 2009   #15
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I will contact a few of the folks I have been meeting here in Europe the last two months to see if anyone knows of the traffic of that one

Tom
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