Curled leaves with purple underside, plus yellowing?

[hiker_]

Each set of "twins" came up from one seed. (Or what looked like one seed anyway.) *Can* I even separate them? How? I've never pricked apart seedlings before. I'm afraid of breaking them. Any advice on how to go about it? I had decided to just give up and accept they'd be stunted...

I lowered the light with the new bulbs to the same height as the old one. The lights are still higher above the seedlings than before, about 4". The seedlings used to be on upside down trays which boosted them up a couple inches...they are now in those (now right side up) trays. Next time they need watering I will be watering from the bottom with plain water.

Unless someone tells me different I'm going to assume the odd, acetone smell was because those particular plants were *especially* too wet. Maybe they had a little bit of root rot that I couldn't see. Hope they manage to recover now.

[ginger2778]

They will come apart, and sooner is better than later. You should very carefully remove them from the pot, cradle the clump in both hands with palms up, then gently massage in between with thumbs, and sort of gently with a slight vibrating push pull type of movement, apply slight pulling and teasing until they come apart, and they will! Don't worry if a few fine roots break, that's inevitable. Then gently repot up to the first leaves, and moisten but not soak the soil. They will recover and be fine.
This is a great skill to learn.

[JamesL]

Smell - I think a lot of different varieties have different smells. Acetone? Don't know what to make of that one.

Potting up - what Marsha said. Although I would bet she is a lot gentler than I am. They are tough you won't break them - other than with too much coddling.

You want purple? I'll give you purple! 2 weeks in the garage.
GGWT from the Marsha E. collection. All my plants are this excellent color.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by hiker_

Unless someone tells me different I'm going to assume the odd, acetone smell was because those particular plants were *especially* too wet. Maybe they had a little bit of root rot that I couldn't see. Hope they manage to recover now.

Acetone is produced by some species of Clostridium bacteria under anaerobic conditions. In that case your soil was seriously water logged which would also account for the starved color of your plants. Roots need oxygen in order to uptake nutrients properly and you want aerobic bacteria to be dominant in the rhizoshere, the anaerobes produce metabolites that are basically toxic to plant roots. if you smell ammonia, acetone or a vomit smell (Butyric acid) then that is the proof your soil has gone anaerobic.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by JamesL

Smell - I think a lot of different varieties have different smells. Acetone? Don't know what to make of that one.

Potting up - what Marsha said. Although I would bet she is a lot gentler than I am. They are tough you won't break them - other than with too much coddling.

You want purple? I'll give you purple! 2 weeks in the garage.
GGWT from the Marsha E. collection. All my plants are this excellent color.

Nice!

[hiker_]

Yikes, Ray, I'm glad I potted them up then!

Yesterday:
Apr30.jpg

They look a lot happier to me, so thanks, everyone!

Today I finally got up the courage to separate the two sets of "twins." They did seem to come apart OK. Marsha, thank you so much for the detailed instructions!

Since I also potted up a bunch of other stuff (basil, ground cherries and peppers), I no longer have room for the tomatoes in my basement.

I initially decided to leave them in the garage overnight and put them into the cold frame in the morning. But I just decided it's really too cold tonight (currently 45, forecast low 38) and brought them inside.

Tomorrow night's forecast low is 44, then after that, 49 and up. So my plan is to put them in the cold frame tomorrow during the day, bring them in for the night, and then leave them in the cold frame starting Sunday. (My neighbors tell me hardening off around here is about cold more than sun.)

How does that sound? Am I going to cause them sun and/or cold damage doing that?

[RayR]

Looking good hiker.
I'm in a like temperature situation. My peppers have been outside quite a number of days and in the garage at night and at my first batch of potted up tomato plants had their first outing in the outside word today. I've run out of room in my basement too so they are all in the garage for the night. The garage will likely be in the high 40's or low 50's tonight I guess which is fine. A little cold treatment does them good. The only plants I don't like to chill are basil, they are more sensitive to cold then peppers, tomatoes and ground cherries.

[JamesL]

Excellent. They do look much better.
Sounds like a fine plan. Worry more about early sun exposure than cold.
Out of Room in the basement - Like you and Ray, a familiar situation here too. Good problem to have though right?
Have had a full compliment out in the garage under lights for a couple of weeks. I did bring them in 2 nights. Tomatoes and peppers do just fine down to 40.
Outside temp has to be going below 35 before I start getting nervous as my garage runs about 5 deg higher than outside. The in/out differential is a number worth knowing.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by JamesL

Excellent. They do look much better.
Sounds like a fine plan. Worry more about early sun exposure than cold.
Out of Room in the basement - Like you and Ray, a familiar situation here too. Good problem to have though right?
Have had a full compliment out in the garage under lights for a couple of weeks. I did bring them in 2 nights. Tomatoes and peppers do just fine down to 40.
Outside temp has to be going below 35 before I start getting nervous as my garage runs about 5 deg higher than outside. The in/out differential is a number worth knowing.

+1- hiker they look much better already. My climate makes me have to grow from fall through winter, and finished by late April. It's a lovely long growing season, but they are always outside for a few days where the overnight is 38-40 degrees. They don't like it much but they do just fine.

[hiker_]

Today most of them got their first watering since potting up a week ago. This mix holds water *much longer* than any mix I've ever used before. Still adjusting.

The forecast was cloudy, but it's actually sunny, not a cloud in the sky. Wound up taking them out of the cold frame and putting them in part shade from deck chairs.

Thanks again everyone.

[ScottinAtlanta]

Originally Posted by TomNJ

I had a purple leaf curling stem problem last year for the first time in 40 years. It was also the first time I switched to a six bulb light set up. Nothing I tried helped, but the plants did survive. They went into the garden very purple and recovered quickly. I am convinced my problem was too much light, or the warmth from six bulbs just an inch above the plants.

The same problem began this year and I raised the light fixtures up to about 4" above the plants and they are doing much better.

TomNJ/VA

I had EXACTLY the same happen to me this year. Switched to 6 light T5 lights from 4 light t12s, and my seedlings looked burnt and stunted. Something about the heat or intensity. I learned my lesson.