Herbicide Application w/ Backpack

[JackE]

Deleted - decided subject matter was inappropriate for this forum. Mr Moderator, please delete topic

I GUESS IT'S OKAY AFTER ALL - SO I"LL REPOST IT

When the label only gives only per/acre mixing info - in this case, 2oz/acre in minimum of 10 gal water (Aim herbicide - Carfentrazone for pigweed), how do we mix it for spot treatment using a backpack? We have directed nozzles on our boom - high volume, low pressure - and can safely run the row middles without shields. We will probably use 30 gals of water instead of 10.

But I will also need to spot treat juvenile pigweeds closer to the plants. I could shut the valve to the boom and open the one to the hose and use a shielded hand wand for closer application, but it's such a hassle dragging a hose around without tearing-up the crop. I would much rather mix 2 gals in the backpack. Can I just pump 2 gals of the main tank mix into the backpack and use it it at that strength? Or should I mix it weaker?

What worries me is applying it too strong and damaging the tomato plants - I've never found a check valve that works well with a hand wand, and it always puts much more chemical on the weed that I need or want. Some labels have separate instructions for hand application, but Aim does not - or I haven't found it in all the fine print that these labels always have.

Thanks,

Jack

[gourmetgardener]

What kind of nozzle do you have on your backpack sprayer? Teejet? Delavan? If you make a solution, change the nozzles on your backpack to the same you have on your boom, and if you go at a walking speed you should be good. Definitely not my favorite herbicide though - I prefer using Devrinol or Sencor as a pre-emergent.

[JackE]

I decide this topic was a bad idea for a forum that's mostly organic - or so I thought! I am more than a little surprised at your response.

So, I'll continue. We use teejet 8001 brass on both the boom and the backpack. Low pressure, big droplets and minimum drift.

We have been using Devrinol preemergent for several years, but I don't like the 12 month rotation restrictions and the need to use a moldboard. I like to follow tomatoes with brassica greens and I can't understand why heading brassicas are okay with Devrinol, but not leafy greens - doesn't make sense. But the label is LAW! Literally!

I'm not going to use Dev this year, and go strictly postemergent with Aim and Arrow(Poast) - the area where the toms are going has been in cowpeas and is infested with redroot pigweed.

I haven't used Sencor, or any Metribuzin. We use a lot of Arrow (Clethodim) postemergent, which works like Poast but better for wild bermuda, which we have a lot of. I'll tank mix the Arrow with the Aim. (Aim costs $192 a quart, BTW :-) ) But I'm spending somebody else's money.

I can calibrate the backpack with walking speed okay, but my problem is hitting individual plants real close to the crop - spot treatment. Presumably, Aim doesn't effect tomato roots like glyphosate does, and acts only on green stems and foliage - but I'm not sure and it
is a burn-down type chemical for broadleafs. Even a brief shot with the trigger puts way too much chemical down that way (not moving, you see, and restricted by a 4" diameter cup shield)). I'm thinking I might need to reduce the concentration from the tank mix to be on the safe side.

A check valve would solve it. Solo USA has one listed in their catalog and I have tried to order a couple of them several times, but they never have it!

Several years ago - I hate to admit this - we killed a whole tomato crop spot treating glyphosate with the backpack! Now we never go anywhere near the toms with glyphosate - not even preemergent. This will be our first experience with the Aim and I'm a little jittery. LOL

Have you tried Sandea? They say it;s fantastic - kills nut grass and you can spray over the top on cucurbits ($395 for a 10 oz bottle). There's a lot of R&D that goes into these highly selective chemicals, though.

Jack

[JackE]

I didn't know Delavan made nozzles. We used Delavan roller pumps for years - and had to replace or rebuild them every few months. Now we use Hypro and it lasts a lot longer - also costs three tiimes as much as the Delavan.

We use quite a bit of Dual Magnum on corn and legumes. It's labelled for tomatoes, but the big farmers tell me there's no margin of error at all with Metolachlor on toms - the slightest calibration error and it's goodbye crop!

Jack

[Wi-sunflower]

Have you ever tried using a wipe applicator for the close in stuff instead of the backpack ??

We have used that with the glyphosate in the tomato crop for the last few years. You do have to be careful, but we killed very few tomatoes last year as long as the dew was off the plants before we started.

The other option is Paraquat / Diquat. It's a "touch kill" but doesn't translocate to the roots.

If you want some info on wipe applicators I can show you how to make your own for cheap out of PVC.

Carol

[mdvpc]

Jack

The Forum is not mostly organic. There are folks that are organic, and those that aren't. There are hybrid growers and op growers and some that grow both. No problem posting what you did.

[JackE]

That's good to know Mdvpc (what a hard name to pronounce LOL), I've seen so much ugliness on other forums, which are dominated by green militants on a mission to save the world, that I didn't want to spoil this one by starting a war. Speaking of tree huggers, I just saw a story on Fox News 5 min ago about deer actually entering peoples homes in Connecticut and, I guess, rummaging in their cabinets for food! Unbelievable! LOL
********************

Carol, I've read about wipe applicators but don't know anything about it.
I'd like to know more.

I think I would be reluctant to use Glyphosate on the tomatoes after past experiences LOL. We wanted to go with Paraquat. Our extension agent recommended it for toms, but none of our suppliers handle it. We buy from internet sources - Keystone and Saveonchemicals.com. So we settled for Aim, which Keystone handles. It should work - our weeds are on their list. As long as it doesn't effect the tomato roots! They claim it doesn't.

Where do you buy Paraquat? Is it "Gramoxone"? Is Diquat a brand name?

Jack

Thank goodness this cold is over - finally got the transplants outside!

[Wi-sunflower]

Yes Gramoxone is the chemical and Paraquat is one brand name. Diquat is actually the name for the formula used to kill pond weeds but it's the same stuff.

I'll have to ask Hubby tonite, but I'm pretty sure Gramoxone is a lot cheaper than most of the newer chems.

I need to go over to Mom's for the day so I'll look up the info on the wipe aplicators tonite if I can.

Carol

[JackE]

And please ask him where we can get it. I think it's restricted and requires an applicator's license.

We have a tech director for our project who has a license - a church member and manages a 4800 acre ranch - cattle operation, but he has an ag degree and knows all that stuff. We can't do anything without his approval -and he often vetos chemicals as too dangerous - Vapam for nematodes, for example! "Fallow for two years", he says, "discing every three months and then we'll have A&M run a nematode test ". I wanted to use Vapam and be done with it! :-) He's okay with Paraquat, though. With Vapam he wasn't worried about the veggies being tainted, but rather OUR safety in applying it.

Jack

[Wi-sunflower]

I'm pretty sure Gramoxone is NOT restricted use but I'll check with Hubby.

Hubby has a degree in ag too and did have the license for many years but he let it expire about 5 years or more ago.

From everything I've read about Vapam, I agree with your techie. In fact I don't think Vapam is even produced any more. At least not for this country. I could be wrong about Vapam but I know there are several of those chemicals that you would apply for nemitodes and stuff that were pulled by the EPA I believe. The Florida growers didn't like it at all since there is no good alt.

Carol

[jabbok]

Gramoxone is restricted use....

[JackE]

Carol, you can still buy Vapam legally but not in small containers - 55 gal drums only. I guess they figure that only pros will be using it in those quantities. But a drum only fumigates an acre or two. It doesn't have a lot of negative environmental impact, but they claim it's dangerous for the personnel working with it. For years they sold it retail in garden shops in small containers and I never heard of anyone getting hurt with it! I think our techie should have let us use it under his supervision - he's young and he's been brainwashed. LOL

The one that the Florida growers depended on so much was Methyl Bromide gas - really extremely dangerous to work with. We use to buy it over the counter!! at the feed store in cans like auto a/c fluid comes in and used it to gas colonies of leafcutter ants. We were told a single whiff can kill you. But the reason EPA banned it was that it damaged the ozone layer and contributes to global warming.

There's a new organic on the market - it's called Melocon - a living fungus, recently discoverd in Africa, that devours nematodes. It comes frozen and must be applied immediately. It turns the ground purple. Hope they know what they're doing - they may have created the Fungus from Hell that will devour whole cities. LOL

Jack

[JackE]

I just got an answer from a knowledgeable source on another forum:

Jack, Spraying row crop herbicides with a backpack sprayer is playing with fire. You can never get an accurate application. Most labels won't permit it..... Backpack sprayers are great for non selectives like roundup and paraquat where too much or too little won't matter... "Take it from a guy who learned the hard way"...Bob.
Sunny Meadow Farm

[Wi-sunflower]

OK, sorry about a bit of bad chemical info. Hubby is the "chemical and fertilizer" guy on this farm. I'm the variety and greenhouse person.

He told me Gramoxone IS restricted use and they haven't made it for years. That's why you can't find it.

I agree about using the sprayer in close. You never can TOTALLY control a bit of drift or aerosoling that is dangerous in close.

We did use the wipe applicator tho with very little killing of the good plants. We used it on the watermelon plants, cole crops tomatoes and winter squash.

I've been trying to find the link I had last year that showed the hand held wipe applicator but so far I'm coming up blank. Here is a site that shows the bigger tractor mounted types http://www.rodgersinc.com/

Those units were given away by Monsanto in the years before Roundup Ready crops came out. You would probably be able to find some of them at farm auctions. That site also shows a hand unit but with a different design than the L type I used.

I made 5 applicators out of 2 - 10ft lengths of PVC plus fittings. The only things that you can't get in your local hardware store are the wick and the fittings that hold the wick into the pipe. We had a second big tractor kit that was never put together so I used them for my hand units.

You can still buy that stuff. I just can't find the sites I found last year.

OK, here it is http://www.agrisupply.com/category.a...cd2=1297863980
For $6 you get the whole rope assembly and for about another $10-12 you get enough PVC for 2 units.

Carol

[JackE]

Carol -- Those hand wick applicators look GOOD! I bet we could get inside tomato cages with them. One question though: do they drip chemical as you move it around or are they more or less drip free? Is there some sort of pad that goes on the frame? Is the $55 dollar one better than the 18.95 one or just bigger size? If they don't drip, it would be GREAT for close work!

I think I'll go ahead and order one as cheap as they are. I don't understand what you are talking about with "rope assembly: and pvc". Don't they sell everything you need in one pkg w/directions etc?

Jack