Not sure about wicking action of my mix

[ArthurDent004]

I created a self-watering container using two icing buckets from Sam's Club bakery. I used two drain fittings, one for filling the reservior and one for the overflow hole. The overflow is routed to an orange juice bottle.

I have a determinate tomato plant potted in the bucket but I don't think it's getting enough water. The plant looked a little droppy yesterday so I poured four ounces of water at the base of the plant and added 4 ounces of water to the reservior before excess started running into the overflow tube. Before I added to water I put my finger into the soil and it was pretty dry for the first two inches and only slightly damp after that.

I made the potting mix from one brick of mixed coco coir that contain 25 percent pine fines. That came to 2.5 gallons and then I added 2 gallons of perilite. I had seen a video online where someone was making a potting mix using equal parts perilite and vermiculite but I thought the coir would work better than the vermiculite.

I still have a 4 cu foot bag of coarse perilite and coarse vermiculite and four bricks of coir left to use. I'm wondering if I should use two parts coir and 1 part perilite and one part vermiculite for the next bucket or if I should have brought potting mix from Lowes, Home Depot, or a local garden store.

[TightenUp]

that plant looks happy to me.

one thing i remember reading and also noticing last year with my SWCs was that for the first couple weeks you might have to water from the top a bit. this gives your plant enough time to develop some roots.

i used a lot of peat in my mix so i can't lend any advice on your specific mix.

you can always scratch down a couple inches to see if the soil is damp. be careful not to mess too much with the roots or the fertilizer i assume is in a ring around the bucket

[JamesL]

Nice container. What size is it? What are you using for a wick and what size?
I would agree with TightenUp on the top watering. I haven't used coir, but I know there are more than a few posts on it here.
That seems like a lot of perlite whether the base is peat or coir. I guess I am not surprised that is is running on the dry side. The 2-1-1 seems like a better ratio but I haven't used vermiculite either.
Take a look at Raybo's 3-2-1 mix using peat if you haven't already.

[ArthurDent004]

The bucket is 9.25 inch wide and 14.5 inches long with a depth of 14.75 inches. I've attached a picture of the bucket label. I found the bucket on the Berry Plastics website and it's listed as 5.2 gallons.

I thought I'd have to buy five gallon buckets until I found a post saying you could get all the buckets you want by going to resturants or bakerys and asking for them. I went to one Sams Club Bakery and they only had one bucket empty but couldn't tell me when I could get more. I went to another one and they wheeled over a shopping cart with 4 five gallon buckets and 8 three gallon buckets and told me to come back before noon tomorrow and I could get more. I took only three trips to get 12 five gallon buckets.

I was looking at a YouTube video on creating a SWC and it said to pack the potting mix into the wicking basket firmly and then fill the bucket half-full and then pack the mix firmly again. I did the first part but realized I didn't do the second part. I just poured the remaining mix in the bucket. I was using only the soil mix for wicking action but have seen articles showing others using old towels, t-shirts, or 1/4 poly rope. I thought I might use four 36 inch pieces of rope in the next pot.

I don't think I've seen Raybo's 3-2-1 mix but I'll look for it and see how it differes from the 2:1:1 ratio. I wanted to use coir, perilite, and vermiculite because they are all PH neutral so no soil PH adjustment is needed. Coir has good moisture retention and vermiculite also has moisture retention properties but I've seen posts saying it tends to get compacted easily, so some people say it shouldn't be used for that reason. Perilite is for making the soil light and airy but you need to use coarse or chunky grade. Some people suggest using lava rocks, because they found it was cheaper and easier to find. The garden shop I bought my perilite from had to order it because they were out but they had the vermiculite in stock and on sale. I ordered the coir because it wasn't available anywhere locally.

I grew the plant from seed. It was three weeks old when I transplanted it. I think I'll try some drip irrigation and see what happens. It's growing indoors under a high quality 200 watt LED light.

I couldn't decide what type of fertilizer to use. I saw posts saying to avoid anything from Miracle Gro but it's one of few locally available brands so I contacted the Scott Miracle Gro Help Center to see if I could use the Miracle-Gro Shake 'N Feed Fruit and Vegetable Granules in a SWC. I received the following reply.

Container Size
For Tomatoes
For other Fruits & Vegetables

6"
2 tsp
1 tsp

8"
1 1/2 Tbsp
2 1/2 tsp

10"
2 1/2 Tbsp
1 1/2 Tbsp

12"
5 Tbsp
3 Tbsp

14"
8 Tbsp
5 Tbsp

I poured two tablespoons of this product in a circle around the edge of the bucket and covered it with potting mix.

[Rockporter]

Miracle grow is instant soluble ferts and you don't want that in a SWC. You can use 10-10-10, you can get from Lowe's and two cups poured around the edge of the bucket. You don't want to get the ferts wet by pouring water directly on it, only allow it to dissolve by the wicking action of the water. It looks like you are indoor gardening so I don't think a plastic mulch cover would be necessary except that you don't want the mix to dry out from the air.

Also, did you add dolomite lime to the mix before you planted out? Peat is acidic and the dolomite lime helps to lower the ph, I am not sure if the coir acts the same way as peat does. Peat is a much better wicking agent for self watering containers, feedback has shown because the coir can get boggy and less air travels through it.

Yes, you should have firmly(not too firm) packed the mix for the wicking action but if you packed the wicking basket enough to get the action going it should take up water just fine. One question I have is how big(deep) is your wicking basket? Is there a possibility that it doesn't sit down far enough into the water of the bucket?

I used SOBE bottles for my wicking baskets in my five gallon SWC because it was long enough to extend into the water. I drilled holes all around the bottle so the water would get in from all heights. I looks like you are on the right track, good luck.

[JamesL]

Arthur,
Great score on the buckets! You couldn't buy better in a 5 gallon size.
Are you doing an indoor grow only or will these plants make the move to outside?
I ask as there will be different considerations for both. Lighting, humidity, cover, etc.

Rockporter is spot on with her comments other than the specific MG product you have.
Shake 'N Feed is a continuous feed so it could be used as a fert strip. (but 2 Tbsp doesn't seem like enough)
I would add that the soluble fert is OK in a SWC, just not as a fertilizer strip. You can use soluble and feed on whatever schedule you choose. If you use soluble as a fert strip, you run the risk of dissolving it all at once and that would not be good.


Coir vs peat - Not having used coir I have no first hand experience with it and I am reluctant to tell you to ditch it as you already have it.
We are all limited in some respects by what products we have, what we can get, and what we can afford.
I am sure people are using it without issue, but as Rockporter mentioned, the general consensus seems to be peat is better for a SWC/SIP application. I think you can get results from coir, but need to hit on the right mix for wicking and aeration.

Wicking - size matters in relationship to the container size and in relation to media used.

Forgive me if you have already been through the material below, but there is a lot of great information and first hand experience in it so it would be worth it to spend some time.

Global Buckets
http://www.globalbuckets.org/


Raybos Earthtainer and Inntainer Threads and guides
http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/pd...tion-Guide.pdf
http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/pd...tion-Guide.pdf

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16694
http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=20459

Wicking alternatives
http://greenroofgrowers.blogspot.com/search?q=wicking
http://www.insideurbangreen.org/2010...gardencom.html

Potting mix for 5 gal buckets (Rockporter's mix inside)
http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=22688

Another recent link here on Coir vs Peat
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?p=338881


Utah State paper on Coir vs Peat
http://scienceofnature.info/media/articles/cocovspeat.pdf

[ArthurDent004]

Thanks for the information JamesL. I'm an apartment dweller without the proper exposure for a balcony garden so it's indoor gardening for me. I have room for three five gallon buckets and thought I could grow something else in a tray. I was thinking something like this Sterilite 4-Gallon (16-Quart) Stacker Storage Box (18"L x 12.63"W x 7.13"H) or Sterilite 10-Gallon (40-Quart) Stacker Storage Box (25.75"L x 18.37"W x 7.13"H).

I created a hydroponics system that used microsprayers to water six net pots in one of these 10 gallon containers but had to shut it down when it caused my indoor allergies to flare up in a big way. Hopefully the SWC doesn't produce this reaction.

The wicking chamber I used was a 24 oz yogurt container that 4.5 inches across and 4.5 inches deep. It's affixed to the bottom of the top container by zip ties and sits on the floor of the bottom container. I punched about 40 holes using a 3/16 drill bit in the wikding container. I saw one set of plans that said the holes in the wicking chamber should be 1/2 inch but that sounds too big to me.

I didn't use any lime in my mix because coir and perilite are both PH neutral so no PH adjustment is needed but I do wander about air getting into the mix. I saw one SWC plan that include an air pipe to improve the amout of air getting into the mix.

[JamesL]

How big is the wicking hole? The size of the holes in the wicking cup should be less relevant. If anything, I think the cup might be too big of a 5 gal container. You did drill holes in the aeration bench? Air exchange is important, but getting the proper wicking action is too.
Top watering and feeding is always an alternative until you get the mix right.
Assuming you work out all the kinks, you might have a humidity issue indoors when it comes to pollination and fruit set. But you can deal with that when the time comes...

[Rockporter]

Your seeded vegetables need the dolomite lime to provide the needed calcium and magnesium that is not present in the coir.

[JamesL]

Originally Posted by Rockporter

Your seeded vegetables need the dolomite lime to provide the needed calcium and magnesium that is not present in the coir.

She is right of course.
Rockporter, what is your take on the size of the wicking cup?
You have more experience with 5 gal buckets than I do.

[ArthurDent004]

I used a four inch hole saw to cut the opening in the top container. I punched about two dozen 3/16 inch holes in this container for drainage and air. If the yogurt cup was too big I do have 3 inch net pots I could use. Is there a guide for knowing what size wicking container to use with what size container?

For the last two nights I've poured 8 ounces of the same hydroponic nutrient solution I used to raise the seedling around the base of the plant and nothing went into my overflow bottle. Last night I poured 8 ounces into the fill tube. The first four ounce shot went into the reservoir but it appears the second four ounce shot all ran out the overflow tube. I estimate that my reservoir holds 1 gallon before it overflows.

For humidity I'm at 38 percent right now. I try to keep the humidity between 35 - 40 percent. I turn on humidifiers if the humidity drops below 30 percent.

The MG Shake N Feed is newly formulated to provide calcium and magnesium, as well as Sulfur, Copper, Iron, Manganese, and zinc. I also have hydroponic nutrients that I can mix up that add calcium and magnesium.

[JamesL]

Arthur,
If your mix was wicking properly I think you would be running way too wet right now. I haven't built a 5 gallon in a while, so I would like to hear Rockporter's take on that. She mentioned SOBE bottles above but I am not certain of the dimensions.

I use a 3 inch hole on a 14 gallon Earthtainer and a 3 5/8 hole on a 20 gallon, which is what Raybo calls for in his specs so that should give you an indicator. Restricting the wicking hole size is probably more important than the wick cup size, but I am sure others will have a different opinion. And again, those numbers are predicated on a peat based medium.

Humidity - You will need 50% to 80% to get pollination once you get to the flowering stage, otherwise the pollen won't "stick". So consider how you want to accomplish that.
You will need to assist pollination as well - electric toothbrush or shaking.
If you are doing just determinate tomatoes, they typically flower all at once over the course of a few weeks, which means you could structure something for that period when flowering.

[ArthurDent004]

I wanted to increase the moisture in the top layer of my mix so I cut out some landscapng fabric to go around the plant and then added a layer of black plastic from a trash bag on top of that. After two days I noticed moisture coming through the fabric.

I didn't realize that you had to boost the humidity that much during the pollentation phase. I guess I'll have to put a humidifer in the room with the plants during that time. I do have an electric toothbrush for hand pollentation. I also have a small makeup brush that I could use for transferring pollen from one flower to another but I hope just buzzing the flowers will be enough.

I bought the following determinate tomato seeds from TomatoFest.com. I may have choosen too many varieties considering that I would only have room for growing three plants at any one time but I wanted to see what I could do.

Beaverlodge Slicer
Black Sea Man-Heirloom
Burbank Slicing
Early Wonder
Silvery Fir Tree
Sophie's Choice
Tiny Tim
Manitoba

I like the design for the InnTainer but I think I would have to use the 14 gallon container due to the space limitation. I would only have space for three units.

[Rockporter]

Originally Posted by ArthurDent004

I didn't use any lime in my mix because coir and perilite are both PH neutral so no PH adjustment is needed but I do wander about air getting into the mix. I saw one SWC plan that include an air pipe to improve the amout of air getting into the mix.

Bingo, you have both of the air inlets blocked off with your setup. Is there a way you could put your containers into another container to catch any overflow? This would allow air to move through the bucket.

[Rockporter]

It sounds like your mix isn't really wicking properly at all. If you pour 8 ounces into the mix and nothing goes to the reservoir but you add 8 ounces to the reservoir and half of it comes out the overflow then I would say you are not getting a good wicking with the coir. This is what I have heard about using coir, that it doesn't wick as well as peat, and that it can become quite boggy and it does it quickly too.

The wicking hole size in my 5 gallons I don't remember because I bullt them 3 years ago now and when I used the sobe bottle I put it on the bucket and drew a circle around it, I cut the circle out on the inside of the writing. I set the bottle into the hole and set the upper container into the lower one. I did this until I got the upper bucket to sit flat on the support of the lower bucket. This made the Sobe bottle fit really well and I also used some zip ties to hold it in. This might be about 3" in diameter and one of the most important things is that the wick sits as close to the bottom as possible so that there is always water wicking up. Once the wicking action stops it is hard to get it started again, maybe you are right about not packing that mix after the wicking container.

The earthtainers will allow for you to grow more than a 5 gallon bucket would but you would also have more foilage growing so give yourself space for that. If you can go that route I would and I would also use Raybo's mix as well.

Watering from the top might be what you have to do unless you replant and I wouldn't want to interupt the roots that have probably established since you planted out. You will definitely need some dolomite lime in there so it is good you have the nutrients to add.

If your plants are not that big I would say start the mix over and use a peat based or at least add 50% peat and more perlite if it is needed. Mix until the mix feels light and fluffy. Add 2 cups of dolomite lime to the mix for each 5 gallon bucket after you have put most of the mix into the bucket. If you go this route of fixing your mix it will mean you have extra mix left over to use at a later time if you let it dry out.