Tomato Seed Fermentation in Closed Jars.

[ContainerTed]

I do this all the time, but had not showed it in pictures here. The question this time is, " What happens to the fungus if the jar is closed??"

To set this up, I had some seeds from the Stick variety to do. So, like I ususally do, I got out a half pint canning jar and a lid and ring. Processing was unchanged from my usual methods with the seeds removed from the fruit with the point of my knife and dropped into the strainer. They were then masaged to break the seed sacs and release as much juice as possible. The contents of the strainer and all juice was placed in the jar with a small amount of water - nothing else. The lid and ring were placed on the jar and tightened enough that nothing could leak out if the jar was inverted. It was then set into a quiet place and was swirled once a day.

On day three, I began to see the beginnings of the white fungus and on day four, it was going strong. In the first picture below, I had just swirled the liquid to mix it up break up any fungus lumps. Note that it is still easy to see the fungus. At this point, the lid on the jar has not been moved at all since the jar was first placed on the shelf. The second picture was taken about 4 minutes after the first one.

So, in the 3rd picture, I show the strainer after the contents of the jar were poured into the strainer. Note the remnants of some tomato pulp and especially at the bottom, the small pieces of the white fungus. At this point in my process, i usually use the spray attachment on the sink to blast the seeds. This will cause any fungus or pulp that is really soft to be blasted thru the weave of the strainer and down the drain, leaving seeds.

Picture #4 shows how most of the debris is gone and 99% of the stinky. Note that you can see a few of the seeds are darkly discolored. They were like that when they came out of the tomato. My tests with these discolored seeds is that the germination rates are much less than the uncolored seeds, so I just throw them away.

After I remove the good seeds with a soup spoon, there isn't much left in the strainer so it gets rinsed and the remaining debris removed. Now, the seeds go back into the rinsed and cleaned jar. The normal rinses are performed to finish cleaning out the debris. Then the seeds get a chlorox rinse followed by water rinses, and then spread out on a paper plate to dry.

My message here is that you can keep your fermentation jars inside and still not stink up the house. The stable temps inside help us control the process. No widely varying temps and such to create variability. In the final analysis, we get a much more reliable job of fermenting done.

Hope this helps some of you with this "aromatic" side of our hobby.

[Labradors2]

That's most interesting and useful information Ted. Thanks for the pictorials!

I use very tiny liquor glasses to ferment my small amounts of seeds, and I cover them with plastic wrap and leave them for 4 or 5 days (until there is some mold on top).

Sometimes the seeds are stained dark red, and not just the red tomatoes. It seems odd.

Linda

[heirloomtomaguy]

Good to see you are back in the "saddle". I like the idea of no rotting seeds on the counter and im sure my wife will love it more.

[Starlight]

Good info is right. : ) I usually cover mine with plastic or a piece of paper but always make it a little bit loose as I thought air needed to get in there.

[ContainerTed]

I should clarify one thing. You don't have to "CRANK" that lid down to eliminate the odor. Finger snug is all you need. Some jars will build up a little internal pressure. So make sure the jar is level when you loosen the lid to prevent some of that "stinky" liquid from squirting out.

I don't wait for the fungus to form. I don't have to see fungus. When I can see that the seeds are separated from the sacs, they are ready. A few will not show fungus, but they will still have that stink. On the ones that don't show a lot of fungus, I make sure to leave the seeds in the chlorox rinse a tiny bit longer and keep them swirling constantly.

Linda, this ol' country boy can think of a few "other" things to do "tiny liquor glasses". Seriously, don't just wait on the fungus mat. When the seeds look clean and most drop to the bottom of the jar, they are ready. The seeds in the pictures above were in the jar for just short of 4 complete days at an ambient temperature of 75F degrees. The jar and lids were fresh out of the dishwasher.

Garrett, right now I'm a bit "Saddle Sore". Of course, it feels like I was sitting on my right jaw while that wild pony tried to jar my brains loose.

Starlight - Now you can ferment seeds and still have the neighbors over.

[Labradors2]

Thanks Ted! I've had seeds sprout on me once when I waited too long for that ole fungus mat to form! The nose knows, so I'll sniff for readiness in the future . We have tons of liquor glasses, so don't worry on that account!

Glad to hear that you're on the mend and I hope that you will soon be pain-free!

Linda

[MissS]

I process my seeds indoors. I place coffee filters over the top secured with a rubber band. This seems to keep the smell in while still allowing air exchange. I do get the fungal mat that forms on the top using this method. I can also then write the variety of seeds and the date on the filter so that I have no mix-ups.

[Salsacharley]

I use 1/2 pint canning jars too, but I only set the lid on top without the ring and I get no odor. I also just rinse the seeds in the jar until the seeds are clean, and don't use a strainer. It works great and I save seeds on over 50 varieties per year.

[seaeagle]

Ted, i have seeds that have brown spots on them like that too.I think they might come out of the tomato looking like that.Maybe just harder to see until you clean them up.Not sure about that though.

Nice work, you truly are the king of tomato seed fermentation

Edit to say, I throw those brown ones away too

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Starlight

Good info is right. : ) I usually cover mine with plastic or a piece of paper but always make it a little bit loose as I thought air needed to get in there.

Yes, air is necessary IMO to allow for the formation of the fungal mat which most folks have found to be important in the fermentation of tomato seeds.

But best I tape my fingers on this one despite the fact that I've saved seed from well over 3,500 varieties.

Carolyn, who doesn't care one whit about smells b'c she never did her fermentations in the house.

[clara]

First of all, I'm really happy that you are on the mend, Ted, and taking care of some tomatoes is a fine "medicine", I think.

This year is a very good one, just the opposite of 2014 when everything was killed in early July by late blight. That means I'm fermenting lots of seeds (indoors). I'd wish I had known about your experience with a closed jar a few weeks earlier - I've thrown away all lids... On the other hand, the stink tells me that the seeds are ready, apart from the fungus mat. For the future, I'll keep the lids!

[ContainerTed]

Hey, Clara. I posted a couple of years ago that the old lids have a number of purposes. One that I use them for is in the garden. Put a hole in the lid near the outer rim and tie a piece of string on. Then use the string to hang them up where you want to discourage birds. The flashing you get when the wind touches them keeps the little critters uncomfortable.

I also run the lids thru the dishwasher and then use them as "dustcovers" on the empty jars i keep in the storage area. Even if I'm going to replace rings, I keep the old lids in place until the jar is about to be used.

[clara]

Ted, I'll keep a good number of (new) lids for next year - for fermenting the seeds of course, but also to put them into my cherry tree - the birds loved them too much! I already have some plastic ravens all around the garden, they at least keep the pigeons, those rats of the sky, away from all fruiting trees and bushes, but smaller birds like sparrow don't care.

[ContainerTed]

Around here, we put a plastic snake in the cherry trees. You ought to see the aerial combat maneuvers the birds pull off when they suddenly notice the snake just before getting to the tree. The "G" forces they endure to escape the area are way up the ladder. I've seen some lose a few feathers they are turning so hard.

[PNW_D]

I tried the lid ferment this year too ...... hard to tell size - but these are very tiny jam jars - 1 oz?