Diluted Bleach as Spray?

[gorbelly]

Bill, this is a really helpful thread. When you say [x] oz of bleach in a gallon, you mean the total volume of water + bleach = 1 gallon, correct? Not 1 gallon of water + [x] oz bleach?

[Chrysos]

Hey Bill,

I sprayed several tomatoes with the bleach solution last week. The two that were the worst infected with EB are now palm trees after I removed the infected leaved A few days later most of the leaves left have a few black spots or edges of black. There are tomatoes on one of the Palm trees. is it too late? When do you give up on a plant? How many leaves do you remove before giving up?
There are two other plants that just had a few yellow leaves, after spraying, a few more leaves were obviously diseased and I removed them, but although these plants look pretty healthy now there are black spots on the main stem. I used 4 oz of 8% bleach to one gallon of water.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. I am located in the Portland OR area.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[b54red]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

Bill, this is a really helpful thread. When you say [x] oz of bleach in a gallon, you mean the total volume of water + bleach = 1 gallon, correct? Not 1 gallon of water + [x] oz bleach?

No, I mean 1 gallon of water + (x) oz bleach.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Chrysos

Hey Bill,

I sprayed several tomatoes with the bleach solution last week. The two that were the worst infected with EB are now palm trees after I removed the infected leaved A few days later most of the leaves left have a few black spots or edges of black. There are tomatoes on one of the Palm trees. is it too late? When do you give up on a plant? How many leaves do you remove before giving up?
There are two other plants that just had a few yellow leaves, after spraying, a few more leaves were obviously diseased and I removed them, but although these plants look pretty healthy now there are black spots on the main stem. I used 4 oz of 8% bleach to one gallon of water.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. I am located in the Portland OR area.

Thanks in advance for your help!

That is a very mild bleach solution and probably not as effective as it should be. I would recommend you start with at least 4 1/2 oz or better yet 5 oz of bleach added to a gallon of water. You do want to use a fine mist and avoid too much runoff and puddling if possible because that can cause a bit of leaf burn if the solution is strong enough. Black spots on the stems doesn't sound like EB. Are you having a lot of rain? Lesions on the stems makes me think of other much more deadly problems like Late Blight, Gray Mold, or Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus. Are you using Daconil and or a copper spray as a preventive measure also?

Since I usually plant an excess of tomato plants for our needs I am more likely to pull a plant early rather than fight a long sustained and frequently hopeless battle to save a really sick plant. It is entirely your decision when to pull the plug on a plant but I will usually do it if there is nothing left but a few healthy leaves at the top of a long bare stem; but even when a plant is like that it can recover from a lot of diseases if enough time is left in the season. Of course if the plant has a really difficult disease to control or one that can't be controlled I will pull it before it gets too bad in order to prevent the disease from spreading to other plants by insects.

Bill

[cassiani]

Do I need to wait a few days before I spray the bleach if I just removed sick leaves? Will the part of the stem that I've exposed wilt or die?

[b54red]

Originally Posted by cassiani

Do I need to wait a few days before I spray the bleach if I just removed sick leaves? Will the part of the stem that I've exposed wilt or die?

You don't have to wait but make sure to spray at sundown or if you must spray in the morning do it before the sun gets up.

Bill

[JerryHaskins]

Not sure where I messed up, but I had grown 2 Better Boy tomato plants in 1-gallon pots up to about 2 feet tall and decided that it was time to transplant them into my raised bed.

I watered the roots in thoroughly when I transplanted them, just as I always do.

They looked great for a day or two---until I sprayed them with a solution of 4 oz. of concentrated bleach (8.25%) in a gallon of water.

The next day, they looked like I had hit them with a flame thrower---all the leaves were starting to shrivel up.

I watered them again, but the next day they looked even worse.

A day or two later they were grave-yard dead (all of the leaves dead and falling off and the main trunk turning yellow/brown).

I pulled them up and tossed them into my compost pile.

Not sure where I went wrong, but I won't ever try that again.

[Johnniemar]

Originally Posted by JerryHaskins

Not sure where I messed up, but I had grown 2 Better Boy tomato plants in 1-gallon pots up to about 2 feet tall and decided that it was time to transplant them into my raised bed.

I watered the roots in thoroughly when I transplanted them, just as I always do.

They looked great for a day or two---until I sprayed them with a solution of 4 oz. of concentrated bleach (8.25%) in a gallon of water.

The next day, they looked like I had hit them with a flame thrower---all the leaves were starting to shrivel up.

I watered them again, but the next day they looked even worse.

A day or two later they were grave-yard dead (all of the leaves dead and falling off and the main trunk turning yellow/brown).

I pulled them up and tossed them into my compost pile.

Not sure where I went wrong, but I won't ever try that again.

Same happened to me. Everytime i use bleach i get dead plants.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by JerryHaskins

Not sure where I messed up, but I had grown 2 Better Boy tomato plants in 1-gallon pots up to about 2 feet tall and decided that it was time to transplant them into my raised bed.

I watered the roots in thoroughly when I transplanted them, just as I always do.

They looked great for a day or two---until I sprayed them with a solution of 4 oz. of concentrated bleach (8.25%) in a gallon of water.

The next day, they looked like I had hit them with a flame thrower---all the leaves were starting to shrivel up.

I watered them again, but the next day they looked even worse.

A day or two later they were grave-yard dead (all of the leaves dead and falling off and the main trunk turning yellow/brown).

I pulled them up and tossed them into my compost pile.

Not sure where I went wrong, but I won't ever try that again.

One thing I never do is put heavy ferts or chems on freshly transplanted plants. You should give them a week to get settled in their new home before messing with them.

I would say, and this just my thoughts, that it was the soil and not the bleach that did it. I've known quite a few home gardeners that have had trouble with Better Boy where they have gotten a virus in a heatbeat and killed their plants.

With using bleach spray on new transplants, you don't know if it from the spray or the soil. Also, not sure how heavy you sprayed. When I spray using the bleach, I use a misting type of spray and hit the plants quick and move on. I don't coat the leaves. Just a quick hit and move on does the job.

I could be wrong, but I would say if your plants totally dying, something else going on other than the bleach.

[JerryHaskins]

Originally Posted by Starlight

One thing I never do is put heavy ferts or chems on freshly transplanted plants. You should give them a week to get settled in their new home before messing with them.

I would say, and this just my thoughts, that it was the soil and not the bleach that did it. I've known quite a few home gardeners that have had trouble with Better Boy where they have gotten a virus in a heatbeat and killed their plants.

With using bleach spray on new transplants, you don't know if it from the spray or the soil. Also, not sure how heavy you sprayed. When I spray using the bleach, I use a misting type of spray and hit the plants quick and move on. I don't coat the leaves. Just a quick hit and move on does the job.

I could be wrong, but I would say if your plants totally dying, something else going on other than the bleach.

You are probably right about the amount of spraying being excessive.

I coated them really well (to the point of run-off) all over . . . leaves and stems. I am sure I over did it.

The same soil grew tomatoes quite well this spring.

I doubt that it was the fertilizer. I only used 3 of those little tomato fertilizer sticks in the soil around each plant---and that was 2 or 3 weeks prior to the transplanting (when they were still in pots.)

Thanks all for the feedback!

[b54red]

The amount of bleach you used added to a full gallon of water should not burn the leaves at all unless there was some kind of significant disease presence. My starting point with small plants or even plants in the greenhouse is 5 oz added to a gallon of water with the 8.25% bleach. My general spraying mix when dealing with most diseases like gray mold is to use 5 1/2 oz added to a gallon of water. I do spray late in the evening or very very early in the morning and I use a fine mist. I rarely see any leaf burn at all unless a disease is present; then I get a shriveling of the more diseased leaves within 48 hrs.

There is always the chance that you got hold of a bottle of bleach that was far more concentrated than the label suggested. That happened to me twice but both times it was an off brand bleach but I'm sure it could happen with any of them. You didn't use a bleach with a scent or some other additive did you? I'm sorry it didn't work out for you but something must have gone wrong but I have no other ideas.

Bill

[loulac]

I strongly agree with Bill, tomatoes don't die if sprayed with the right product, with right doses, sprayed at the right time. I learnt this the hard way after the following mistakes :
- bad math when converting oz and gallons into the metric system. By the way I don't think lots of gardeners spray one gallon of the stuff in one go, another risk of making mistakes when preparing smaller quantities.
- reading the precise composition of the product on sale is a must. Sodium hypochlorite often comes with whitening agents, scents etc. which may have unexpected effects. Choosing the right brand is important.
- I understand some varieties may be more delicate than others but I haven't met any yet.
- Sodium hypochlorite does wonders but no miracle : at the end of the season late blight always wins on my place.

I'll add a detail that may interest gardeners working on crossings : year after year I grow a very bushy yellow cherry tomato, name unknown, that may have at most one or two leaves struck by late blight when all the other varieties are severely hit and it keeps giving fruit. Hope it may give ideas...

[JerryHaskins]

Thanks.

No, the bleach I used was a straight sodium hypochlorite solution (no perfumes or other ingredients).

I suppose the manufacturer could have made a bad batch. I have no way to check that.

And I am an engineer with over 40 years experience---much of it in the safety and environmental field---and quite familiar with the metric and English systems and very careful with my measurements.

I think I just over applied it.

Thanks again.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by loulac

I strongly agree with Bill, tomatoes don't die if sprayed with the right product, with right doses, sprayed at the right time. I learnt this the hard way after the following mistakes :
- bad math when converting oz and gallons into the metric system. By the way I don't think lots of gardeners spray one gallon of the stuff in one go, another risk of making mistakes when preparing smaller quantities.
- reading the precise composition of the product on sale is a must. Sodium hypochlorite often comes with whitening agents, scents etc. which may have unexpected effects. Choosing the right brand is important.
- I understand some varieties may be more delicate than others but I haven't met any yet.
- Sodium hypochlorite does wonders but no miracle : at the end of the season late blight always wins on my place.

I'll add a detail that may interest gardeners working on crossings : year after year I grow a very bushy yellow cherry tomato, name unknown, that may have at most one or two leaves struck by late blight when all the other varieties are severely hit and it keeps giving fruit. Hope it may give ideas...

Unlike you I have beaten back Late Blight a couple of times. It isn't easy and it isn't foolproof but at least you can have a fighting chance. As soon as you recognize LB is starting and you must recognize it early you start spraying everything in the garden with the stronger diluted bleach spray and you repeat it every day for a couple of days. You must spray the ground, the mulch and surrounding plants even if they aren't tomatoes because you need to stop as many spores as possible as quick as possible. Usually the first plant or two that you saw LB on first will die but most of the others can be saved. If it rains again you have to start over. Remember after the leaves shrivel from the bleach remove them and bag them. If the plants are wet you must up the bleach content even if it means a little leaf burn. Better a little leaf burn than no plants at all.

I will emphasize again how important it is to start spraying as soon as you see the first signs of LB because if you wait it will become systemic and then nothing will help. The undersides of the leaves must be sprayed completely because that is where new spores seem to form and it is important to kill them before they spread. Late Blight is the most difficult thing to stop or even slow down. It makes gray mold look like a minor problem in comparison.

Bill

[loulac]

Big thanks for the above post. You made me understand that hitting Late Blight is not a fight but a war. As I'm retired I'll have plenty of time to follow your instructions, I had never thought I should have sprayed on such a big area. From now on I won't throw in the towel before the first serious frosts.