Does anyone scarify old seeds?

Old chef · April 4, 2018

I was wondering does anyone have any experience scarifying old tomato seeds ?

I am trying to germinate some five-year-old seeds and having a very slow start

Old Chef

MissS · April 4, 2018

Five year old seed is not considered "old". From my experience I have found that some varieties take longer than others to germinate. I would just be sure to keep them warm 72-85 degrees and slightly moist and then wait them out. I have had seed take up to 2 weeks to germinate.

No I have never scarified tomato seeds.

kurt · April 4, 2018

I pass fine grain sandpaper over larger than (mater seed) most hard seeds.Piper Nigrum seeds I will set in that floral green water sponge material,freeze two three days,then pass the paper enough to open up a soft spot.Poppy works the same.Maters are hard to “wake up”since so small.There are threads here with numerous proven seed recovery’s when age is concerned.

Nan_PA_6b · April 4, 2018

I wonder if scarifying would reduce the many helmet heads I get? I end up working on a third of them. I did an experiment last season where I planted some seeds with no seed coat, and they sprouted. (They were fresh).

Nan

JosephineRose · April 5, 2018

I had two varieties that took three weeks to germinate this year. Threw me, because after two weeks I had resown. Now I have ten seedlings of each.

sirtanon · April 5, 2018

I started a bunch of 10+ year-old seed back in October, and sowed many more than I needed, expecting poor germination. Ended up having great germination, so I ended up with a ton of extra plants that I ended up giving away.

One trick I use that you might try, Old Chef, is to soak the seeds prior to sowing them in a dilute Miracle Gro solution. Just a tiny pinch to add in a little nitrogen, etc.. and then let the seeds soak in the solution for about 30-min to an hour, then remove and sow.

**carolyn137** · April 5, 2018

No, I have never scarified tomato seeds and won't ever do that. And yes,there are seeds for some other mostly flowers, that require scarification.

Nan, I can't see that scarification of tomato seeds would help since helmet heads, as you call them,have already germinated and the problem with them is structural and I've made, I think,some good suggestions about howto get rid of helmet heads. And also yes, I do remember the experiments you did.

For any tomato seeds over about 5 to maybe 8 yo I just double sow.Over 10 yo I've posted here several times what I do to try to wake them up.

My best save for tomato were seeds of September Dawn that were 22 yo.

Carolyn

Old chef · April 5, 2018

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

No, I have never scarified tomato seeds and won't ever do that. And yes,there are seeds for some other mostly flowers, that require scarification.

Nan, I can't see that scarification of tomato seeds would help since helmet heads, as you call them,have already germinated and the problem with them is structural and I've made, I think,some good suggestions about howto get rid of helmet heads. And also yes, I do remember the experiments you did.

For any tomato seeds over about 5 to maybe 8 yo I just double sow.Over 10 yo I've posted here several times what I do to try to wake them up.

My best save for tomato were seeds of September Dawn that were 22 yo.

Carolyn

Carolyn- I was hoping that you would join in.

Thank you always for your advise- I'll learn to be a little more patient

Old Chef

oldman · May 10, 2018

Old seed can be slow to germinate, but 5 years isn't really that old and no matter how old it is tomato seed is too delicate to benefit from scarification. Tomato is basically a tropical plant. It can reseed in harsher climates, but it hasn't evolved for that. The seed does have germination inhibitors, but purchased and most shared seed has those removed before packaging. I like saving it in the hobby sized zip plastic bags and have good results with seed between 10-12 years old, excellent results with newer seed, and very mixed results with older seed.

My recommendation would be to sow old seed in its own flat, taking extra care not to sow seed too deep and using a light seed starting mix. I wet the mix with water from a tropical fish aquarium to get some bacteria working. Use more seed than you normally would in each cell and planning on thinning or picking seedlings out with tweezers and transplanting. Or just plant one per cell and deal with the inevitable gaps. Use a spray bottle to make sure the mix stays damp without being too wet and don't let it dry out, distilled water if you have hard water or use a water softener.

Be patient. Older tomato seed can take up to a month to germinate if you don't get impatient. Seed stored in paper packets seems to be slower than seed stored in plastic. If you do get impatient, sow leeks or basil or something obviously not tomatoes in the cells and keep waiting. You may still be surprised and you only need one plant to do well to replenish your seed supply. Bottom heat may speed things along, but I don't think it's as important as some sources claim. As long as your germination room is at least 74 you are probably fine. If you can put the flat under lights even before you have green it can help too. Even seed that doesn't need light to germinate will benefit from it. If it doesn't help, it won't hurt anything either.

Fred Westcott · May 11, 2018

I decided to use my old seed this year since I hated to throw it out. I planted 10 seeds per cell, hoping that at least one would germinate. Most of the seed was grown in 2008 and was commercial, e.g. Tomato Growers, Victory, etc. I was surprised that I got germination in all cells but 7. But it's been only 10 days and another one or two come up daily. So about 90% of the varieties sent up at least one plant so far.
I didn't do anything special keeping seeds.

peppero · May 11, 2018

I did some old Malabar spinach seeds using a shingle.

Jon

oldman · May 12, 2018

With regards to patience I thought my old seed of Black from Tula was going to be my best example at 31 days. But last night I has a grouping of Tiny Red Currant and another of lime green salad come up, tieing them at 40 days. Both had fairly small seed and I'm thinking it was planted too deep. The seedlings are coming up around the outside edges of the cells, not in the middle. If anything is going to break that record it has til the 25th. We're supposed to have rain for four or five days, but I'll begin hardening plants off next Saturday and plant them out as they're ready. After that looking at ungerminated cells will be depressing and I'll find a space to dump them in the garden where anything that's still viable will be welcome to volunteer and then race the weather to fruit this season.

April 4, 2018	#1
Old chef Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Long island Posts: 456	Does anyone scarify old seeds? I was wondering does anyone have any experience scarifying old tomato seeds ? I am trying to germinate some five-year-old seeds and having a very slow start Old Chef

April 4, 2018	#2
MissS Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 3,146	Five year old seed is not considered "old". From my experience I have found that some varieties take longer than others to germinate. I would just be sure to keep them warm 72-85 degrees and slightly moist and then wait them out. I have had seed take up to 2 weeks to germinate. No I have never scarified tomato seeds. __________________ ~ Patti ~

April 4, 2018	#3
kurt Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Homestead,Everglades City Fl. Posts: 2,490	I pass fine grain sandpaper over larger than (mater seed) most hard seeds.Piper Nigrum seeds I will set in that floral green water sponge material,freeze two three days,then pass the paper enough to open up a soft spot.Poppy works the same.Maters are hard to “wake up”since so small.There are threads here with numerous proven seed recovery’s when age is concerned. __________________ KURT

April 5, 2018	#6
sirtanon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ (zone 9b) Posts: 796	I started a bunch of 10+ year-old seed back in October, and sowed many more than I needed, expecting poor germination. Ended up having great germination, so I ended up with a ton of extra plants that I ended up giving away. One trick I use that you might try, Old Chef, is to soak the seeds prior to sowing them in a dilute Miracle Gro solution. Just a tiny pinch to add in a little nitrogen, etc.. and then let the seeds soak in the solution for about 30-min to an hour, then remove and sow. __________________ I could sail by on the winds of silence, and maybe they won't notice... but this time I think it would be better if I swim..

April 5, 2018	#7
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	No, I have never scarified tomato seeds and won't ever do that. And yes,there are seeds for some other mostly flowers, that require scarification. Nan, I can't see that scarification of tomato seeds would help since helmet heads, as you call them,have already germinated and the problem with them is structural and I've made, I think,some good suggestions about howto get rid of helmet heads. And also yes, I do remember the experiments you did. For any tomato seeds over about 5 to maybe 8 yo I just double sow.Over 10 yo I've posted here several times what I do to try to wake them up. My best save for tomato were seeds of September Dawn that were 22 yo. Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

April 4, 2018	#4
Nan_PA_6b Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 3,194	I wonder if scarifying would reduce the many helmet heads I get? I end up working on a third of them. I did an experiment last season where I planted some seeds with no seed coat, and they sprouted. (They were fresh). Nan

April 5, 2018	#5
JosephineRose Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: California Posts: 383	I had two varieties that took three weeks to germinate this year. Threw me, because after two weeks I had resown. Now I have ten seedlings of each.

May 10, 2018	#9
oldman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kansas 5b Posts: 198	Old seed can be slow to germinate, but 5 years isn't really that old and no matter how old it is tomato seed is too delicate to benefit from scarification. Tomato is basically a tropical plant. It can reseed in harsher climates, but it hasn't evolved for that. The seed does have germination inhibitors, but purchased and most shared seed has those removed before packaging. I like saving it in the hobby sized zip plastic bags and have good results with seed between 10-12 years old, excellent results with newer seed, and very mixed results with older seed. My recommendation would be to sow old seed in its own flat, taking extra care not to sow seed too deep and using a light seed starting mix. I wet the mix with water from a tropical fish aquarium to get some bacteria working. Use more seed than you normally would in each cell and planning on thinning or picking seedlings out with tweezers and transplanting. Or just plant one per cell and deal with the inevitable gaps. Use a spray bottle to make sure the mix stays damp without being too wet and don't let it dry out, distilled water if you have hard water or use a water softener. Be patient. Older tomato seed can take up to a month to germinate if you don't get impatient. Seed stored in paper packets seems to be slower than seed stored in plastic. If you do get impatient, sow leeks or basil or something obviously not tomatoes in the cells and keep waiting. You may still be surprised and you only need one plant to do well to replenish your seed supply. Bottom heat may speed things along, but I don't think it's as important as some sources claim. As long as your germination room is at least 74 you are probably fine. If you can put the flat under lights even before you have green it can help too. Even seed that doesn't need light to germinate will benefit from it. If it doesn't help, it won't hurt anything either. Last edited by oldman; May 10, 2018 at 09:08 PM.

May 11, 2018	#10
Fred Westcott Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: New Jersey Posts: 17	I decided to use my old seed this year since I hated to throw it out. I planted 10 seeds per cell, hoping that at least one would germinate. Most of the seed was grown in 2008 and was commercial, e.g. Tomato Growers, Victory, etc. I was surprised that I got germination in all cells but 7. But it's been only 10 days and another one or two come up daily. So about 90% of the varieties sent up at least one plant so far. I didn't do anything special keeping seeds.

May 11, 2018	#11
peppero Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: selmer, tn Posts: 2,944	scarify I did some old Malabar spinach seeds using a shingle. Jon

May 12, 2018	#12
oldman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Kansas 5b Posts: 198	With regards to patience I thought my old seed of Black from Tula was going to be my best example at 31 days. But last night I has a grouping of Tiny Red Currant and another of lime green salad come up, tieing them at 40 days. Both had fairly small seed and I'm thinking it was planted too deep. The seedlings are coming up around the outside edges of the cells, not in the middle. If anything is going to break that record it has til the 25th. We're supposed to have rain for four or five days, but I'll begin hardening plants off next Saturday and plant them out as they're ready. After that looking at ungerminated cells will be depressing and I'll find a space to dump them in the garden where anything that's still viable will be welcome to volunteer and then race the weather to fruit this season.