Amishland corrections plus advice for finding heirloom

[carolyn137]

It has nothing to do with Canada for there are many who have written of their problems with Lisa at Amishland who are in the US. And I'm not going to bother to relate some of those stories.

Suffice it to say that Amishland is not on the suggested list of places to buy seeds from here at Tville, and I agree with that.

[remy]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

I would be very obliged if anyone has any seeds from Haiti that I can buy or trade as I would still like to finish the basket and hand it over. Amishland was the only place I have seen them for sale.

I absolutely hate to be negative about anyone but this was over the top.

XX Jeannine

Hi Jeannine,
I wish I could help you with some seeds, because I would just send you some after that fiasco, but I don't have anything from Haiti. Heritage Harvest Seeds in Canada carries Plate de Haiti http://www.heritageharvestseed.com/tomatoespq.html
Remy

[carolyn137]

I just Googled Plate de Haiti and seldom have I see such wrong information posted, such as goes back to the 1500's, was introduced by SSE and on and on and Heritage Harvest just repeats what others have said.

The fact is that I received it in a trade with the Frenchman Norbert in 1992 and SSE listed it in 1993. Will Weaver who is a food historian got seeds from me and it was he who said it was a Creole variety that arrived in the US in the late 1700's with those escaping a slave uprising. I never saw that documentation, but could be.

No seeds of it were extant until I got them for Norbert in France.

When I listed it I said small red ovals, taste OK, which is not high on my list. Weaver listed it and said rasrberry colored and apple shaped. What Heritage Harvest shows in neither.

Of couorse Lisa's description at Amishland, well now I forgot it and I was just there, but no matter, as well as looking at any picture, would be consistent with anything that Weaver said/

If you want proof of so much wrong info that Lisa offers go to thepink Section and read about the varieties Todd County Amish and Amish Potato Leaf. I did and my jaw dropped open b' I was the one who introduced both of those varieties, seeds from Doug, who posts here at Tville and seldom have I seen such twisted information and untruthful information. Lisa will do anthing to hype up, alter names, her best one was eenie Weenie Greenie for Green Grape and Native American for Cherokee Purple wasn't far behind, in order to make money. My opinion but I know I'm not alone in thinking that way.

Unless the variety must be from Haiti there are others that were grown in the Carribean that are reasonable alternatives that I think are much better tasting varieties. And no doubt Plate de Haiti is still being grown somewhere on Haiti and other of the nearby islands. What I'm saying is that you might want to consider more modern varieties that might be more usful for cooking purposes than try to find a very old native heirloom from the Caribbean. Just a modest suggestion.

[Jeannine Anne]

Hi Thank you Remy, you are very kind. I know you don't have them because I got a great order from you this year and had looked for anthing Haitian then.

Carolyn, thank you for all the help too. I cannot imagine why anyone would resort to such tactics to sell seed,Eenie Weenie Greenie indeed.

It is my own fault as I had bought seed a few years ago when in the UK and the very rare bean seed that arrived was one I recognised straight away. I also bought White Rabbit tomatoes but never grew them. Probably just as well.

It must be very frustrating Carolyn to read stuff like this when you have been in tomatoes all your life. I guess there must be a lot of folks out there growing all kinds of stuff that is wrong and with all the swaps we have goodness me, it could be chaos if it wasn't for the dedication of people like you.

Is Heritage Harvest a recommended seller? I won't order the Haitian seeds from there now though if the info is not accurate.

So are these now not available from anyone I wonder.

Thank you again for all your help, I always learn something.

I will go and have another read in the pink section!!

XX Jeannine

[carolyn137]

Is Heritage Harvest a recommended seller? I won't order the Haitian seeds from there now though if the info is not accurate.

So are these now not available from anyone I wonder.


*****

I've never dealt with Heritage Harvest but Tania knows them and does link to their site. Of course she also has to link to Lisa's site if she's the only one offering something.

I don't off hand if HH is listed in the Seed /Plant sources here or if there's a thread for them in that Forum.

What was shown at HH were round reds and what I got from the seeds that Norbert sent me from France were ovals. And then Weaver who got the seed from me ends up listing them as dark pink and apple shaped, this in the SSE YEarbook years ago.

SSE is listing Plate in the red section of the 2011 Yearbook but seeds from Weaver and described as raspberry/red, no shape mentioned, but if seeds from Weaver they'd be whgat he calles apple shaped.

Your choice on what you want to do.

Yes, it frustrates me to no end reading all the wrong info one can find online and elsewhere. White Rabbit isn't rare, it's one of the many so called white varieties that Joe Bratka bred which also includes SnowWhite, Super Snow White and Ghost.

Lisa tries to make everything look rare, exclusive, etc. Sad.

[Jeannine Anne]

I did a bit of googling yesterday and found a mention of Plate de Haiti which referred to a very old book, there was a drawn picture of the fruit which was quite interesting, red, and ribbed rather squat in shape. The picture didn't look like any of the pictures I have seen ay HH or Amishland.

Perhaps this was what it was like originally.

It is beginning to interest me now, I guess I like to solve mysteries so next year I think I may do a grow with whatever I can find to compare.

Seeds from SSE plus Amishland if they ever get here,I won't re order, but will get from HH

I also noticed that it has an AKA Hispaniola..

Thank you again .

XX Jeannine

[Jeannine Anne]

Just found the link..

http://botanicalillustration.blogspo...-tomatoes.html

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

I did a bit of googling yesterday and found a mention of Plate de Haiti which referred to a very old book, there was a drawn picture of the fruit which was quite interesting, red, and ribbed rather squat in shape. The picture didn't look like any of the pictures I have seen ay HH or Amishland.

Perhaps this was what it was like originally.

It is beginning to interest me now, I guess I like to solve mysteries so next year I think I may do a grow with whatever I can find to compare.

Seeds from SSE plus Amishland if they ever get here,I won't re order, but will get from HH

I also noticed that it has an AKA Hispaniola..

Thank you again .

XX Jeannine

HIspaniola refers to one island with Haiti at one end and the Dominican Republic at the other, so Hispaniola itself can't refer to just Haiti.

Seeds for two varieties from that island are indeed Plate de Haiti and another one that Norbert also sent me which is Olirose de St.Dominique which is the Colonial way of referring to what we know as the Dominican Republic. Olirose are small pink ovals. As I noted above, many of the same varieties were grown way back on many different islands in the Caribbean.

You said above that you were going to get seeds from SSE. If you're an SSE member you can request them from the SSE person listing them b'c they aren't in the public catalog which has only about 40 tomato varieties compared the the about 4000 in the Yearbook.

Both Plate de Haiti and the Olirose one are listed in the 2011 Yearbook and an SSE member can only request seeds from the current Yearbook and only at the times the lister specifies where they give their contact info.

So I'm not too sure how you're going to get seeds from the YEarbook unless you are an SSE member. Just wondering.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Just found the link..

http://botanicalillustration.blogspo...-tomatoes.html

When

When I go to this link I'm told that the picture of Plate de Haiti is in a link by gessner but when I go there, there is no picture of a tomato.

The picture shown at first, by Hoefnagel is not IDed as Plate de Haiti.

So back to square one. All they say about the Hoefnagel picture is that it looks like some of the more modern beefsteak varieties b'c of the shape.

[Stepheninky]

My understanding from talking with a missionary that had lived in Haiti is that the majority of the tomatoes grown and found in the markets were pretty much a generic Italian plum type tomato. He also said it was almost next to impossible to find a beefsteak or globe type tomato in any of the markets.

You might could find seed for chayote also called a vegetable pear that is kinda like a type of summer squash used in Haitian cooking but not sure if it can grow in your area as it requires 150 frost free days.

Scotch Bonnet peppers are also used in Haiti as the pepper of choice for creole cooking so that would be something you could easily find seed or plants to grow out, and would be a flavor of home as well.

Anyways hope this info is of some use

[Jeannine Anne]

Carolyn, I am a member of sse.. have been for some years.I guess I read the drawing different to you.

I have Chayote for growing too but am not growing it this I usually grow Scotch bonnet.

XX Jeannine

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jeannine Anne

Carolyn, I am a member of sse.. have been for some years.I guess I read the drawing different to you.

I have Chayote for growing too but am not growing it this I usually grow Scotch bonnet.

XX Jeannine

I'm glad to hear that you are an SSE member . Unfortunately the only Plate de Haiti listed by SSE is the one that Weaver got from me and describes as raspberry. My seeds from Norbert in France gave red fruits. But the Olirose one in the pink section looks OK. And Olirose is also from the same island.

Somewhere I have seeds for both varieties, but they'd be very old seeds but if things don't work out for you with the SSE listings and you want to try and wake up some seeds for next season let me know in the Fall so I can try to find those seeds.

Yes, it was very confusing about the picture. At first I saw it as red, etc., and then I read the info below and it said that Plate D haiti was first pictured by Gessner and gave that link, but that just took one to a very nice article about him and his accomplishments.

And then it spoke to the picture, by Hoefnagal, but that was not IDed as the Haiti one, rather, it was the one that was referred to as being more like a modern beefsteak one. And neither Plate d Haiti nor Olirose have ever been described as anything other than small 2-3 oz fruits.

And being small fruited makes sense as well when one looks at the history of tomatoes and how they got from Mexico to other places which also included the Caribbean islands.

The thrill of the chase to find something one wants, whether it be a rare perennial, or long lost rose, or a rare carrot or whatever, is what makes the chase so much fun. At least it does for me.

[Jeannine Anne]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I'm glad to hear that you are an SSE member . Unfortunately the only Plate de Haiti listed by SSE is the one that Weaver got from me and describes as raspberry. My seeds from Norbert in France gave red fruits. But the Olirose one in the pink section looks OK. And Olirose is also from the same island.

Somewhere I have seeds for both varieties, but they'd be very old seeds but if things don't work out for you with the SSE listings and you want to try and wake up some seeds for next season let me know in the Fall so I can try to find those seeds.

Yes, it was very confusing about the picture. At first I saw it as red, etc., and then I read the info below and it said that Plate D haiti was first pictured by Gessner and gave that link, but that just took one to a very nice article about him and his accomplishments.

And then it spoke to the picture, by Hoefnagal, but that was not IDed as the Haiti one, rather, it was the one that was referred to as being more like a modern beefsteak one. And neither Plate d Haiti nor Olirose have ever been described as anything other than small 2-3 oz fruits.

And being small fruited makes sense as well when one looks at the history of tomatoes and how they got from Mexico to other places which also included the Caribbean islands.

The thrill of the chase to find something one wants, whether it be a rare perennial, or long lost rose, or a rare carrot or whatever, is what makes the chase so much fun. At least it does for me.

Thank you Carolyn,

it is fun chasing stuff down, so next year I will do a wee trial, and yes please I will accept the seeds, I will remind you when the season has slowed down a bit..if in fact it ever does for you.

I don't know of you remember but last year I was looking for advice on two tomatoes I had brought from the UK..Madame Jardel's Black and Queen of Hearts. I offered you seeds of both but you diidn't get back to me,. The offer still stands.

Thank you again

XX Jeannine

[Jeannine Anne]

Hi just a point., re the two tomatoes above, Mde Jardels Black and Queen of Hearts.

I have been sent PM messages requesting them.

I am sorry but I do not have spare seed other than I had saved for Carolyn, if I do in the future I will offer it in a seed for sharing post.

XX Jeannine

[Jeannine Anne]

Juat noticed on the Amishland site where I was looking up somethng I bought a couple of years ago, she has put a correction on for Plate de Haiti,she says the seed her suppliers had sent the wrong seed,or something like that and hers (with proof of purchase)................this would include the seeds that I sent for which eventually arrived 3 months late.

Just thought I would add this,she is now calling them,vemillion red cherry size,2 1/2 inch little orbs..

XX Jeannine
""
Since writing this I have found a refernce to the wrong seeds on the net,it seems someone who got" wrong seeds" got multi lobed tomatoes from the seeds,I guess they were expecting apples which is how they were described last year, so it would appear the right ones(as Lisa sees it) are wrong anyway. So there will be a multi lobed Plate de Haiti floating around soon I presume...