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Old July 13, 2010   #1
tjg911
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Default Merged: Proactive or reactive spraying? (Daconil)

for the experts here -

can LB infection be ignored (preventative spraying) when there is no widespread LB outbreak in the area and no strong winds to blow it in when:

(1) temps are high (80+) when it rains for 1 or 2 or 3 days on and off as tstorms?

(2) temps are high (80+) with high humidity (dew points above 66) without rain?

i'm operating under the premise that since LB is not widespread here that warm temps with wet foliage is not a major threat like cool to cold weather would be as last summer. afterall, it always rains in the summer and is very humid here and LB never was a problem so the mere presence of rain and humid weather shouldn't be cause for panic spraying. after last season LB is more likely here than in the past but until it is present in the area then there is no reason to panic. as you might guess i am holding off not having sprayed yet.

tom
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Old July 13, 2010   #2
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I just started spraying a week ago or so. My plants have gotten so large and set so many fruits that I would hate to lose them now. I'm not in a panic but I think once your plants get LB you can't treat it. For the next few months I would rather prevent it.
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Old July 13, 2010   #3
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It amazes me how people wait for disease to strike and then try to treat the plants. It's like the systems I work on where preventative maintenance is the key to system integrity. You don't wait for it to break but rather do the required maintenance so it doesn't break. Same with plants and disease. As I use bio controls I start my preventative disease maintenance on plant out inoculating the root zone with Rhizobacteria and mycorrhizae. As the plant develops Biopesticides are applied as a foliar during the course of the plants growing cycle. Whether it is Actinovate, Azoxystrobin or the bio friendly Phosphorous Acid (Exel LG/Agri-Fos).
Or if Daconil is your cup of tea use it as a preventative as once your plant is infected all the Daconil in the world isn't going to help. Ami
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Old July 13, 2010   #4
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Deleted but there is not delete option. And it says I need 15 words.
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Old July 13, 2010   #5
Timmah!
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I must concur. Considering all the time, effort, & money put into creating & maintaining a garden, why on earth would one gamble with the possiblilty. The risk/reward equation heavily indicates preventative spraying. I've read & empathized with all the tribulations you've had & am befuddled by your hesitancy to protect your investment.
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Old July 13, 2010   #6
danwigz
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NO.

Longer answer:

Once you have late blight you've basically got the big screw and it won't stop turning until your plants are dead a week later.

I wasn't into tomato culture last year like I am now, but it was still devastating to lose my 8 grape tomato plants that all had a lot of fruit yet to ripen. I'm thinking 1oz fruits x 100 unripe tomatoes = at least many pounds.

Right now for me to lose one of my many tomato plants would be a big loss mostly because I am trying so many new varieties to me and all the effort I've spent into fostering their development.

No widespread LB means just small outbreaks? Who knows what average person put some potato tubers in the ground to see what happens and they have no idea? My neighbor has a garden 2-3x the size of mine and I have no idea what they have planted nor what precautions they've taken.

I wouldn't consider spraying for LB "panic spraying." Most things that can battle LB also will help against other foliar diseases like early blight and the like. I'm using two different sprays, one copper, the other daconil every other application.

Well, these are a bunch of random mutterings really on this issue, I wouldn't consider myself an expert at all. But really, do what you feel comfortable with. If I hadn't been attacked by Late Blight last year, I wouldn't be doing anything this year. Best of luck,

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Old July 13, 2010   #7
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Late Blight has three requirements;
1) A host plant
2) the presence of the disease
3) weather conditions favorable to the spread of the disease.
In any of the conditions aren't met, you can't have Late Blight.

I am growing tomato plants.
I have a recent confirmed case of Late Blight less than 5 miles from my garden.
The weather here is scheduled to be damp and cooler.
I sprayed Sunday night. I will be doing it again on Saturday but only because of all the rain I've had so far this week. If there are no new cases reported locally before the end of July, I am going to assume the disease is no longer present and I will probably discontinue my precautionary spraying.

If you don't meet any of the three conditions listed above, why are you spraying? If you have hot, dry weather and there are no reports of the disease within 100 miles of your garden, I think you're safe.The information you need to make an intelligent decision is readily available.

Late Blight is a relatively rare disease. Even among those of us who see it every year, most don't see it until late in the season after we've harvested most of our tomatoes. In that case our weather is getting cooler and the disease is brought North by Tropical Storms. We could spray and prevent it but why bother? In the very worst case we only lose a few days of production. It's true that a lot of us lost plants last year but most of that can be attributed to the infected plants imported and sold by Bonnie Plants. There is no debate. They caused the epidemic. They were the Typhoid Mary of last year's problem. Even though the one case reported in my area this year was on Bonnie Plants, the rest of them appear clean and there has only been one confirmed case. I hope it's the only one.
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Old July 14, 2010   #8
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LB isn't the only foliar disease out there. And then we have soil borne disease as well. My comment was directed at all diseases. How many threads with photo's do you see popping up with the question "What disease do I have?", "What's wrong with my plant?"! I put too much time and money into my plants starting from seed germination to plant out to take any chances. If you want to play "Russian Roulette", knock yourself out. Ami
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Old July 14, 2010   #9
Timmah!
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Ami, I know you use Exel & Actinovate; do you also use Serenade? I seem to remember you mentioning it in a thread, but I'm not sure. What kind of regimen are you using for foliar?
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Old July 14, 2010   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amideutch View Post
LB isn't the only foliar disease out there. And then we have soil borne disease as well. My comment was directed at all diseases. How many threads with photo's do you see popping up with the question "What disease do I have?", "What's wrong with my plant?"! I put too much time and money into my plants starting from seed germination to plant out to take any chances. If you want to play "Russian Roulette", knock yourself out. Ami
I agree with Ami......I feel alot more comfortable knowing that Daconil is protecting my plants. I have better things to do than research what disease is attacking my tasty tomatoes >>>>>>>>>>>>Talon
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Old July 14, 2010   #11
carolyn137
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LB isn't the only foliar disease out there.

***

Ami, while the initial infection with LB is the spores landing on the leaf surface and infecting, I've never seen it as a Foliage disease b'c the resultant infection is systemic and almost always lethal.

As opposed to the common foliage diseases Early Blight ( A. solani), Septoria Leaf Spot, both fungal , and the bacterial ones of Bacterial Speck and Bacterial Spot.

Yes, all of the above four can kill a plant but do it by defoliation, not by a systemic infection and the progression of disease is very very slow as compared with LB which can result in a mass of stinking black tissue within a week or two.
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Old July 14, 2010   #12
tjg911
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Default let's try again!

only duckfan came close to answering the questions i asked. please read what i am asking, don't tell me about how once it strikes because i am fully aware of that. if you wanted to be preventative when it was not required you'd spray your plants the day you planted them and even if there was no LB within 1000 miles.

please answer (if possible) the following scenarios because i do not want to spray if it is not necessary.

so again --

for the experts here -

can LB infection be ignored (preventative spraying) when there is no widespread LB outbreak in the area and no strong winds to blow it in when:

(1) temps are high (80+) when it rains for 1 or 2 or 3 days on and off as tstorms?

(2) temps are high (80+) with high humidity (dew points above 66) without rain?

i'm operating under the premise that since LB is not widespread here that warm temps with wet foliage is not a major threat like cool to cold weather would be as last summer.

afterall, it always rains in the summer and is very humid here and LB never was a problem so the mere presence of rain and humid weather shouldn't be cause for panic spraying.

after last season LB is more likely here than in the past but until it is present in the area then there is no reason to panic. as you might guess i am holding off not having sprayed yet.

thank you!

tom
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Old July 14, 2010   #13
hasshoes
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Deleted but there is no delete option. And it says I must have 15 words.
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Last edited by hasshoes; July 15, 2010 at 01:43 PM.
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Old July 14, 2010   #14
tjg911
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thanks but here it is is 80 or 82 not in the 60's, i'm not near the ocean as i'd guess you are based upon your low temps. when i look at the LB risk map http://uspest.org/risk/tom_pot_map there is not much around here, the green is low risk and the ONLY part of ct with nothing on the map is where i live, so i still say it is not here tho i understand it can blow in but i also stated it is not windy. people did not answer the specific conditions i noted that's what i asked not a general question whether to spray.

don't get so upset, the experts here have the most experience and we all know who they are. at times people like to post but don't have the background of the folks here that we know to be the most knowledgeable.

please let's keep this friendly, i am not trying to make trouble. i am trying to hold off IF i can. if it was cold, wet and windy i wouldn't be asking these questions. it's been wicked hot and dry until 2 days ago and it's still pretty warm but rainy and humid.

tom
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Old July 14, 2010   #15
amideutch
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Timmah, no I don't use Serenade but use other products that contain Bacillus subtilis which is the active ingredient in Serenade.

For my seedling drench used on plant out the solution consisted of Mycogrow Soluable, Actinovate, Biota Max, Biostart Defensor and Biostart Rhizoboost. All these products consist of either Beneficial bacteria, Beneficial fungi and or mycorrhizae. Three weeks after plant out Azoxystrobin was applied as a foliar. Two weeks later Exel LG was applied as a foliar. This week Actinovate and Biostart Defensor (Bacillus subtilis and Bacillus cereus) will be applied as a foliar.
Besides my weekly application of BioBizz BioGrow (8-2-6) I have made 2 applications of Azobacter, Microbe Tea from T&J and 2 applications of EM (Effective Microorganisms).

As Carolyn pointed out on LB the disease is usually transmitted from spores riding the air currents and the disease spreads through the plant systemically. So you can protect the plant with Daconil or apply your systemic fungicides such as Azoxystrobin or Phosphorous Acid or use your Actinovate or Bacillus subtilis which resides on the leafs surface to attack the disease (spores) when they appear. And all this depends on the weather (rain) which can remove the products from the plant requiring another application.

So my approach is basically to grow a healthy plant through aggregate fertility and microbial inoculants creating a biodiversity that will help the plant fight disease along with foliar applications to prevent airborne infection. Just call me Ami unplugged.
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