Galina x Black Krim F2

akgardengirl · July 3, 2011

I am getting some segregation on this cross from Raymondo. One plant is ind. like and the other is det and bushy. The ind. one is earlier than the bushy plant.
Sue

travis · July 4, 2011

Why would an F2 from a Galinas x Black Krim express determinate growth habit?

How do you define determinate in this case?

**carolyn137** · July 4, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by akgardengirl

I am getting some segregation on this cross from Raymondo. One plant is ind. like and the other is det and bushy. The ind. one is earlier than the bushy plant.
Sue

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=12045

Sue, I'm bringing up this link to the original discussion of both the Snow white cross as well as the Galina X Black Krim cross which I followed closely since Steve Draper had done the same cross and had sent me 5 F1 seeds.

And in that above link I described the size of the F1 fruits as well as fruits from some F2 and I think F3 selections.

And I noted that the post F1 growouts gave me scraggly indet plants, never anything det, and I was growing up to 12 plants each season for a couple of years, but eventually gave up b'c I was getting NO genetic segregation at all.

And in the link above I wished folks well who were working with the cross in terms of getting some segregation. Mine was the last post in that thread.

Edited to add that I think there was one person working with this cross who might have seen some segregation, but I don't remember more. And in the above link I also said that I thought that the Galina seeds used back when Steve did the cross were probably just as weird as the ones I used which led to Drl Carolyn to Dr. Carolyn pink, to Green Doctors to Green Doctors Frosted. Just saying I don't know the source of Raymondo's Galina seeds that he used for the cross.

akgardengirl · July 4, 2011

Hi Carolyn, I reread the discussion from last year which the Galina x Black Krim F1 was mentioned in the Galina x Snow White F1 thread. I am growing out the Galina x Black Krim F2 this year and am just reporting on the differences between the two F2 plants. I do have a scraggly, ind. plant like you noted and then a neat bushy and much shorter one. I don't know the seed source for Raymondo's Galina but it looks like segregation to me with the two plants being so different. I will keep updating as I go along.
Sue B.

PS- Leaf differences are also showing. Small plant have flat leaves that are a good size and the tall one has much smaller leaves with a slight tendency to curl.

akgardengirl · July 4, 2011

Travis,
I have no idea why one plant is so much shorter and bushier than the other. Maybe a semi-indeterminate would be a better description.
Sue

travis · July 4, 2011

When the bushy one begins to flower, count the internodes (straight segments of stem between leaf nodes). If flowers appear ever other internode, or there are two internodes between blossom clusters, then it may be a determinate. If there are three internodes or more between blossom clusters, chances are it's just a bushy indeterminate.

Of course the tale is told when each shoot terminates in a blossom cluster with no further growth from that growing tip, and only true side shoots to carry on.

I don't believe in "semi-indeterminates." Rather, regardless of bushy, dwarf, compact, or sprawling, if the growing tip continues to emerge upward and onward past a flower cluster, it's just another indeterminate in the big book of tomatoes.

akgardengirl · July 4, 2011

Thanks Travis...I will keep an eye out for your tips on the bushy one.
Sue

akgardengirl · August 29, 2011

Here is the bushy Galina x Black Krim F2. The unripe fruit is the shape of the Black Krim and not the Galina which is the same shape as last year. The plant remained bushy and was very healthy...no scraggly looking plant here. Carolyn, I can send you some seed after the season. Next year it gets a better location in the greenhouse.
Sue B

Sherry_AK · August 30, 2011

Sue -- Have you had ripe ones on either plant yet? It sure looks good and healthy, especially for this late in the season for us. It's feeling very Fall-ish around here (except yesterday!!!).

akgardengirl · August 30, 2011

No, not any ripe yet but I will get a pic of the fruit when that happens. It is an usually healthy plant...the leaves are thick like the dwarves but not rugose.
Sue

**carolyn137** · August 30, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by akgardengirl

Here is the bushy Galina x Black Krim F2. The unripe fruit is the shape of the Black Krim and not the Galina which is the same shape as last year. The plant remained bushy and was very healthy...no scraggly looking plant here. Carolyn, I can send you some seed after the season. Next year it gets a better location in the greenhouse.
Sue B

Sue, Of all the F2's I put out from the same cross I never got anything even resembling bushy.

Considering the two parents I can't see it being a dwarf even though you described the leaves as being thick, but not rugose.

Will you please remind me of what you got with the F1 plants. I remember very clearly what I got on those F1 plants from the F1 seed that Steve Draper sent me.

Thanks.

akgardengirl · August 30, 2011

I am not saying it is a dwarf but that it has thicker (tougher) leather like leaves like a dwarf that aren't rugose. It would be a shorter indeterminate tomato. Last year, I grew just one plant of the F1's and it was taller and not full looking as this one. The leaves were the same as this year's plant tho. I may grow out more of the F2 seed next year to see if this one has look alikes!
Sue B

**carolyn137** · August 30, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by akgardengirl

I am not saying it is a dwarf but that it has thicker (tougher) leather like leaves like a dwarf that aren't rugose. It would be a shorter indeterminate tomato. Last year, I grew just one plant of the F1's and it was taller and not full looking as this one. The leaves were the same as this year's plant tho. I may grow out more of the F2 seed next year to see if this one has look alikes!
Sue B

(Considering the two parents I can't see it being a dwarf even though you described the leaves as being thick, but not rugose.)

.... is what I wrote above so I agree with you Sue and didn't suggest it was a Dwarf and nor did you. I was only speaking to the parents.

What I wanted you to share is what the size, color and shape of the fruits were on your one F1 plant so I could compare it to what I got.

Maybe it's shown in one of the posts above but I guess I'm just too lazy tonight to go back up and look.

Thanks/

akgardengirl · August 30, 2011

I have a picture posted of the fruits for the F1 under the Galina x BK F1 thread. I now have a new computer so the original picture is on the portable drive and not easy to get to. Last year's fruits had a mix of Black Krim and Galina shapes as you can see in the picture. This year it is the Black Krim shape for the few fruits that are on the plant and which are not ripe as of yet.
Sue B

Raymondo · January 6, 2012

Interesting differences in the plants. Could be a number of things I suppose including a stray pollen grain when the F1 was grown or a mutation. I hope the fruit was tasty whatever the cause.
By the way, I got my original Galina seeds from Carolyn.

January 6, 2012	#15
Raymondo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Saumarez Ponds, NSW, Australia Posts: 946	Interesting differences in the plants. Could be a number of things I suppose including a stray pollen grain when the F1 was grown or a mutation. I hope the fruit was tasty whatever the cause. By the way, I got my original Galina seeds from Carolyn. __________________ Ray

July 4, 2011	#2
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Why would an F2 from a Galinas x Black Krim express determinate growth habit? How do you define determinate in this case?

July 4, 2011	#4
akgardengirl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anchorage, AK zone 3/4 Posts: 1,410	Hi Carolyn, I reread the discussion from last year which the Galina x Black Krim F1 was mentioned in the Galina x Snow White F1 thread. I am growing out the Galina x Black Krim F2 this year and am just reporting on the differences between the two F2 plants. I do have a scraggly, ind. plant like you noted and then a neat bushy and much shorter one. I don't know the seed source for Raymondo's Galina but it looks like segregation to me with the two plants being so different. I will keep updating as I go along. Sue B. PS- Leaf differences are also showing. Small plant have flat leaves that are a good size and the tall one has much smaller leaves with a slight tendency to curl.

August 30, 2011	#9
Sherry_AK Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Alaska Zone 3/4 Posts: 1,857	Sue -- Have you had ripe ones on either plant yet? It sure looks good and healthy, especially for this late in the season for us. It's feeling very Fall-ish around here (except yesterday!!!).