Fusarium Wilt

[ginger2778]

Fusarium is a fungus, not a virus.

[swellcat]

There's a fungus among us.

[Cole_Robbie]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Fusarium is a fungus, not a virus.

Yes, which I am presuming means it is on the outside, which I further presume means my Oxy Clean is killing it, if it is on any of my seeds. But I am still going to start using a hot water bath just to be on the safe side.

[swellcat]

Mites make wrong?
These have had a neem-oil baptism.



Noire de Crimee
(Cap bill rotated camera program selector to manual. The random result may be more interesting than many intentional efforts.)

The tomato ate well.

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Fusarium is a fungus, not a virus.

That's what I thought. But then people started making comments here and there about only using commercially produced seeds to avoid getting fusarium from swapped seeds which made me wonder.

Also made me feel guilty about sharing seeds through the MMMM and a few trades knowing I had fusarium in my soil...

As I said, I always ferment then treat with bleach before drying my seeds. Is this enough to remove any trace of it on my seeds?

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Yes, which I am presuming means it is on the outside, which I further presume means my Oxy Clean is killing it, if it is on any of my seeds. But I am still going to start using a hot water bath just to be on the safe side.

I just searched quite a few scholarly articles about whether it is found inside the seed coat that is, inside the germplasm. There isn't one that would tell me that, very frustrating.
Cole, I would think like you, it can get inside the fruit, but not into the germplasm. I think oxyclean, bleach, fermentation would all do the job. It can be spread by seeds or transplants, gardener shoes, etc, but likely it is only on the outside of the seed coat, so disinfection is the key.

Maybe one of our scientists will know. Where is Chris K when we need him?

[AlittleSalt]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

I just searched quite a few scholarly articles about whether it is found inside the seed coat that is, inside the germplasm. There isn't one that would tell me that, very frustrating.
Cole, I would think like you, it can get inside the fruit, but not into the germplasm. I think oxyclean, bleach, fermentation would all do the job. It can be spread by seeds or transplants, gardener shoes, etc, but likely it is only on the outside of the seed coat, so disinfection is the key.

Maybe one of our scientists will know. Where is Chris K when we need him?

I've been doing the same thing for hours and came up with a lot of nothing. I agree, very frustrating.

[AlittleSalt]

Two days ago, this plant was green.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

I have 7 out 12 Big Beef F1 sprouting that I intend to grow in the raised bed that I know for sure has both RKN and Fusarium wilt. Big Beef is VFFNTA.

If Campari is actually Mountain Magic - they have a resistance to Fusarium races 0-2, early and late blight, and V according to Johnny's http://www.johnnyseeds.com/vegetable...seed-2513.html The ones I have started are F2s.

Both varieties are seedlings right now, and should be ready to plant out sometime around July 4-15th (I'm hoping to plant them on July 4.) That is a month before the recommended plant out date for transplants in my area of Texas.

The bed I want to plant both of them in is the one I have shown pictures of in this thread along with the results of planting in it. Five plants in that bed out of 17 tomato plants have already been pulled due to Fusarium. Three more plants will be pulled soon.

This is a question for you all - that involves my thoughts without knowing the answer. Is it possible that the Fusarium resistance in the Campari be transferred to the F2s that I have seedlings of? If so, that would mean they are still FFF.

Bill, I do remember what you wrote about Big Beef F2 on the first page of this thread. When it comes to genetics - I understand X+Y = a baby/s male or female with genes and DNA from both parents and their grandparents... but that is where my understanding starts to wane.

No, Campari is not the same as Mountain Magic.I saved two threads about this and bonk,neither came up.

Mountain Magic F1 was bred By Dr. Randy Gardner and as I recall Campari F1 was bred by enza Zada in Israel.

There were three that were bred by Dr,Gardner,Mountain Magic Smarty F1 and Plum Regal F1, all F1's with lots of disease tolerances put in. Bejo Seeds in the Netherlands was supposed to be doing the commercial seed production for all three, but they got many failures due to weather.

So Randy sent me LOTS of seeds for all three and I made a seed offer here at Tville for them.There was lots of interest from those who breed tomatoes since they wanted to use them to breed some of the tolerance genes into stuff they were working on

(This is a question for you all - that involves my thoughts without knowing the answer. Is it possible that the Fusarium resistance in the Campari be transferred to the F2s that I have seedlings of? If so, that would mean they are still FFF.)

Here's my answer. Both are hybrids. When you save seeds,specifcally you said the F2 seeds,genetic segregation occurs ,so no, you'd have no idea which,if any F's got transferred and would have to make selections and then somehow put those out in KNOWN infested soil to see how they do

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

I just searched quite a few scholarly articles about whether it is found inside the seed coat that is, inside the germplasm. There isn't one that would tell me that, very frustrating.
Cole, I would think like you, it can get inside the fruit, but not into the germplasm. I think oxyclean, bleach, fermentation would all do the job. It can be spread by seeds or transplants, gardener shoes, etc, but likely it is only on the outside of the seed coat, so disinfection is the key.

Maybe one of our scientists will know. Where is Chris K when we need him?

I've posted about this before and I know there are several threads if you do a search here,but I'll just wing it.

Marsha is right in saying that there is NO data to say that, well ANY, oxidative procedures will eliminate pathgens on the surface of a seed. I did a post quite recently about Dr.Helene Dillard who already tested that.

Several of us tried to find data to prove methods such as Comet,,Oxyclean,etc,worked for tomato seeds,and we found none at all.

I doubt F can get inside the fruit,I know some bacteria can in supermarkets where the stuff is constantly being misted , but it sure can get in the vasculature of a plant since that's the way one makes the diagnosis.

The best way to get F off the seed coat is to do actual fermention, I can't even see the need for subsequent bleach treatment since that's oxidative as well and someone here said something about how those that do commercial seed production do it, I'm talking about large companies like Petoseed,Moran,etc., well, they do it by large scale fermention,or acid treatment and the like.

So Chris I'm not, but I think I know enough to answer some of these questions .

Carolyn

[AlittleSalt]

Thank you Carolyn. That does help me understand a lot better about the F2s. That means I still need to buy some FFF seeds.

I did look up Campari using Enza Zaden in the search http://www.enzazaden.com/products-an...roducts/tomato
"In 1995, Campari was the first vine tomato variety with a delicious sweet taste. This variety is available under the brand name Tasty Tom in the Netherlands, and is called Campari in the USA."

[AlittleSalt]

Today, I went to local places I usually avoid - looking for any kind of tomato seeds that are VFN or just FN, and I didn't find any. I did find lots of hybrids though. I do have 3 or maybe 4 Big Beef F1 VFFNTA seedlings that might make it. This hot humid weather does not seem to agree with them. (Although the OPs and other hybrid seedlings are doing fine.)

As I have written before, this year our heavy drenching rains came at the wrong time. Almost all of the 4+ oz. fruit has catfacing and concentric rings which is ugly to everyone other than us tomato gardeners. Even picked at first blush - the tomatoes are mushy inside - except Big Beef. My family likes Big Beef. None of them want to eat the varieties that are mushy and have catfacing and concentric rings. I grow tomatoes not just as therapy, but I grow them for my family to enjoy. That is a factor in choosing what to try next.

This is the third straight year of receiving too much rain in May and Early June. The 7 years before that were drought years. That also has to figure in on my decision on what to try next.

I have 4 containers of one tomato plant each. Each plant is less than 2' tall. Container gardening was never what I wanted to do, but I had to try it. I applaud everyone who has success growing in containers. So many of you have proven that it works great for you.

I want to grow in the soil that I have put so much into. The soil didn't move itself to our gardens - nor did it dig/till in oak leaves for years to improve itself. That soil didn't build a fence around it, or build raised beds. It was just dirt waiting for someone determined enough to use it to grow in. Even with RKN and Fusarium wilt - I'm not giving up. I have never hid the fact that I am stubborn but being stubborn is often confused with determination. I started gardening to fight a nerve disease in 2010. I stopped taking opioids and morphine because it wasn't helping. My pain specialist and doctor told me I needed to find a hobby - I chose gardening. This is a huge factor in what to try next.

Grafting is something I am understanding a lot more about, but with the past three years of messed up weather - I'm not sure that is going to help? There is also the fact that I could fail at grafting, and right now, I cannot do that.

I will be buying some VFN, VFFN, and VFFFN varieties for next spring even if they are tasteless and hard as a rock. I need to try this next, and who knows, maybe that is what my family will like to eat?

Gardening is not just gardening to me. I almost gave up this year. I cannot do that.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by AlittleSalt

Today, I went to local places I usually avoid - looking for any kind of tomato seeds that are VFN or just FN, and I didn't find any. I did find lots of hybrids though. I do have 3 or maybe 4 Big Beef F1 VFFNTA seedlings that might make it. This hot humid weather does not seem to agree with them. (Although the OPs and other hybrid seedlings are doing fine.)

As I have written before, this year our heavy drenching rains came at the wrong time. Almost all of the 4+ oz. fruit has catfacing and concentric rings which is ugly to everyone other than us tomato gardeners. Even picked at first blush - the tomatoes are mushy inside - except Big Beef. My family likes Big Beef. None of them want to eat the varieties that are mushy and have catfacing and concentric rings. I grow tomatoes not just as therapy, but I grow them for my family to enjoy. That is a factor in choosing what to try next.

This is the third straight year of receiving too much rain in May and Early June. The 7 years before that were drought years. That also has to figure in on my decision on what to try next.

I have 4 containers of one tomato plant each. Each plant is less than 2' tall. Container gardening was never what I wanted to do, but I had to try it. I applaud everyone who has success growing in containers. So many of you have proven that it works great for you.

I want to grow in the soil that I have put so much into. The soil didn't move itself to our gardens - nor did it dig/till in oak leaves for years to improve itself. That soil didn't build a fence around it, or build raised beds. It was just dirt waiting for someone determined enough to use it to grow in. Even with RKN and Fusarium wilt - I'm not giving up. I have never hid the fact that I am stubborn but being stubborn is often confused with determination. I started gardening to fight a nerve disease in 2010. I stopped taking opioids and morphine because it wasn't helping. My pain specialist and doctor told me I needed to find a hobby - I chose gardening. This is a huge factor in what to try next.

Grafting is something I am understanding a lot more about, but with the past three years of messed up weather - I'm not sure that is going to help? There is also the fact that I could fail at grafting, and right now, I cannot do that.

I will be buying some VFN, VFFN, and VFFFN varieties for next spring even if they are tasteless and hard as a rock. I need to try this next, and who knows, maybe that is what my family will like to eat?

Gardening is not just gardening to me. I almost gave up this year. I cannot do that.

Raised beds will help a great deal with too much rain. If the soil is well amended the faster drainage from raised beds means that the amount of split fruit is reduced by a huge amount. Of course if the rain falls heavy for a week or more then you will still get some ugly tomatoes but far fewer than if the plants were grown on level ground. Of course the down side of the raised beds draining so well is that in dry conditions they will need more watering and a good heavy mulch to keep the soil moist and cooler.

Since your family likes Big Beef and it has FF resistance that might be enough to cut way back on your fusarium problem as long as that third strain of fusarium is not present in your soil. I grew Big Beef as my insurance tomato for many years since it had good fusrarium tolerance until that third race of fusarium showed up a few years back.

Most varieties of tomatoes will show definite damage to the skin from excessive water but in my experience the ones that are affected the most are the thin skinned pinks and black tomatoes. Of course there are exceptions like Delicious which despite the heavy rains of the last two weeks is still producing beautiful tomatoes with near flawless skin but it isn't resistant to fusarium without grafting. A black tomato that has shown more resistance to the effects of too much water is Spudakee which is a must grow for me because of production and taste and it is a bit more resistant to fusarium than a lot of the other OP varieties.

Bill

Bill

[Worth1]

Well if it is fungal couldn't a person fumeigait the soil with an anti fungal?
Worth

[My Foot Smells]

How can one tell if they have Strain 1, 2, or 3? Bill, I have heard you mention this on several occasions.