"MythBusters Challenge" - Azatrol vs. Take Down Garden Spray

[b54red]

I have had several years where the whiteflies were so bad I couldn't even breath without getting them in my mouth or nose when I disturbed my tomato plants. If you have them that bad then you are going to have to work your butt off to get them under control.
First of all it will take several different types of spray and you will have to spray about every 3 days for a couple of weeks to really get the population down. I used a pyrethrin & neem oil spray, a soap and canola oil spray, permethrin and soap spray, dormant oil spray, peppermint, clove, and cederwood oil mixed with very soapy water, and Malation and soapy water. I also used a high pressure water spray and even tried my leaf blower. I did get them under control but it was very hard work and every time I let up on my spraying they came back in force. If they get bad this year I am going to try a growth regulator also. It sure helps with fleas in the yard so why not whiteflies.
If you plant fall beans and cucumbers and squash they will swarm all over them. They seem to like them better than tomatoes.

[habitat_gardener]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Azatrol .... $58.00 Pint Concentrate

I think my tomato plants have been hit by the russet mite as well. They don't look as bad as Ray's, but they are starting to get brown leaves. According to the Love Apple Farms blog, Azatrol is the only thing that can control them, and the mites start attacking only after the plant has set fruit. But at that price, forget it.

[rnewste]

Myth: BUSTED!!

The cheaper stuff works better! Take Down Garden Spray has been more "immediate" and effective overall, as compared with the Azatrol on the Spider Mites, Aphids, and White Flies.

Habitat, you are in luck as I just saw it carried at Yamagami's in Cupertino yesterday. $16.99 for the Pint, which is cheaper than you will find on Amazon.com when you add in the Shipping.

Raybo

[Suze]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Myth: BUSTED!!

The cheaper stuff works better! Take Down Garden Spray has been more "immediate" and effective overall, as compared with the Azatrol on the Spider Mites, Aphids, and White Flies.

That's good to know, Ray. Still working well for you? I just thought I'd ask since you posted the above response about three weeks ago.

I've got some spider mites and whiteflies on my fall plants and I need to do something before it gets too out of control.

I used some soap spray a few days ago, but having dealt with these little buggers before, I realize that's only a temporary measure that will kinda sorta help for a few days and the problem isn't going to go away.

I was pricing the Greenlight fruit tree spray vs. the Take Down (similar - both an oil + pyrethrins) and it looks like the Take Down is less expensive, at least on the Planet Natural site. Also, the Take Down has a higher concentration of pyrethrins, which makes it an even better value.

I take it that you are using just a little more than the 1% rate (which is 3 teaspoons per gallon) - is that correct? Thanks.

Originally Posted by rnewste

Still very early in my evaluation of these two products, but as of today, the Take Down Garden Spray seems to be quite effective in killing my Aphids, Spider Mites, and Psyllids. At $16.00 for a pint of concentrate that will make 16 gallons of spray, I think it is a pretty good deal.

[rnewste]

Hi Suze,

Yes, so far, so good. I have had some of them nest in the undersides of the leaves, but the Take Down seems to freeze them in their tracks. You may be able to find it in a local Nursery store, which is where I found it. About the same price - but you save shipping, and you have it to use immediately. My plants are doing well. Here is a photo of a pair of Siberia taken last week:



Just hope we continue to get mild weather for another few months. Supposed to hit 100 degrees here over the weekend. This is actually our warm Season, as you may remember the Oakland Fire of several years ago that burned 500 homes. That hit the last week of September.

Raybo

[Suze]

Thanks, Ray - I'll give it a go.

And you might have been scratching your head over where the heck I came up with that 3 teaspoons / gallon rate. I don't know, I think I misread.

[rnewste]

Suze,

I am using about one-half ounce per gallon of water in "maintenance mode". With heavier infestation, I would up that to a full ounce per gallon application rate.

The instructions are to "mist" the leaves without creating leaf run-off. Pretty hard to control that, but I guess the manufacturer wants you to apply just a light mist to adhere to the undersides of the leaves. Need some practice now on standing on my head while spraying. Oh well, I do need the exercise!

Raybo

[Suze]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Suze,

I am using about one-half ounce per gallon of water in "maintenance mode". With heavier infestation, I would up that to a full ounce per gallon application rate.

Ray, have you ever experienced any leaf damage or burn at either rate mentioned above for the Take Down? Also, what's the hottest temperature you've ever sprayed at and/or have you ever sprayed mid-day with direct sun on the plants?

Thanks. Just trying to understand when safe times and temps are to apply this product in a hotter climate.

I have been occasionally been using Pyganic 1.4 this year, which is similar (oil based + pyrethrins) and will note that I've found it needs to be applied in the evening or very early in the morning if the day is going to be hot and sunny, or there can be some leaf damage.

[rnewste]

Suze,

Unlike some other products, there is no "warning label" to not use it during sunny days. I sprayed my plants last week at 10:00am when I noticed some critters - and no damage to the leaves.

I think this may be due to the high percentage of Canola oil used in the ingredients (89.5%). My leaves have a shiny appearance to them after spraying, which kind of makes sense.

Raybo

[Suze]

Thank you for your input Ray.

The Pyganic also does not have any sort of warning label. Luckily, the damage was not severe, and I only sprayed just a couple of beds around 10:30 am.

But it was a really hot sunny day (90's by noon) and there was some minor leaf damage. Not a good day to spray anyway, really. Since I am almost out of the Pyganic, perhaps I'll switch to the Take Down instead.

Spider mites have been a real problem here this year, ugh.

On a side note - so far, what seems to be working very well for me as both a spider mite preventative and fungicide is a 2x/week spraying of Actinovate + seaweed emulsion.

What I've seen so far is if regularly used early on, seaweed emulsion really does help keep the spider mite population way down. Next year, my plan is to start out with the twice weekly actinovate / seaweed spray from the get-go before there is evidence of any mite problems whatsoever.

I'd read about this before and was somewhat skeptical, but have seen for myself that the seaweed emulsion does indeed work very well as a preventative for spider mites.

[rnewste]

Suze,

What brand of seaweed emulsion are you using? Where is it available?

Thanks,

Raybo

[Suze]

Originally Posted by rnewste

Suze,

What brand of seaweed emulsion are you using? Where is it available?

Ray, I am using Maxicrop at a 1.5 Tablespoon / gallon rate. So far, so good. Like I said before, I was a bit skeptical, but it does seem to work. Maxicrop is readily available at any better nursery in my area, but I suspect any quality seaweed emulsion product would work too.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...pider+mites+se

You will also see this mite preventative tip frequently mentioned on cannabis forums, lol.

[rtsouth]

Ray, in trying to find a source in the South for TDGS, I found this warning concerning temperature when not to apply TDGS:

[PDF] TAKE DOWN GARDEN SPRAY - Monterey Lawn and Garden Products, Inc.

PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
Do not use TAKE DOWN GARDEN SPRAY when temperatures are above 90慚. ... TAKE DOWN GARDEN SPRAY will kill the following insect pests: ...
www.montereylawngarden.com/.../take_down_garden_spray_02.pdf - Similar

[Suze]

Thanks for the find on possible temp restrictions for the Take Down spray, rtsouth.


And ... I would like to emphasize that I really see the seaweed emulsion as more of a preventative, rather than something that would actually kill a full-fledged spider mite infestation in progress - in case I didn't make that clear before. I've gotten some really good results, but did start using it as soon as I saw the very early signs.

In any case, next year it will be part of my spray routine from the beginning, as seaweed emulsion is good stuff for tomato plants anyway.

[rnewste]

rt,

Good tip, Thanks.

I was under the impression that any potential leaf damage came from the Sun's effect on the wet leaves - - not temperature related. What you found in the .pdf was indeed a temperature related warning of 90 degrees and above restriction.

Raybo