BER

encore · July 19, 2015

starting to get some BER on my two margharita paste tomato plants, they hatched many dozens of fruits in a few days, the early fruits (the bigger ones)seem to be fine. I've kept water in the bottom trays under the buckets, so they have always had water. does that blossom end rot spray you can buy work at all? what else can I do to ease up on the BER? tom

Bipetual · July 19, 2015

I've used it, but honestly it's hard to know how well it works. Used as directed, it really can't hurt. Or you could mix in a teaspoon of calcium nitrate in a glass of water and put it in your saucers once a week. Earthbox users call this "the snack". They sell the powder on Amazon. You just have to keep it dry in an airtight container.

This year I mixed about a cup of dolmitic lime into my soil for my self-watering buckets like the earthbox folks do, which you can think about for next year. It provides calcium and magnesium in the right proportion. I used the brand called Espoma Garden Lime. It also helps level out the ph of the mix if it's peat based.

BER is a weirdly complex problem. Sometimes you can do nothing and it will stop happening by itself. Most paste types are prone to it. If you are like me, which is to say you start out with a perfectly reasonable number of containers but want to keep adding to your collection to grow more stuff, and you really want to grow pastes, you might want to consider trying an Earthbox for them next year. People who use them say following the directions for setup and using the snack once a week equals no BER, especially after the first year if you reuse the mix because you still have residual calcium in the mix that has already broken down from the lime, plus each year you add fresh lime.

Sorry this is so long. I hope you find some of it to be helpful, and I encourage you to ignore the rest!

zipcode · July 20, 2015

I am growing in peat based soil, and the calcium present in tap water seems sufficient. I rarely have ber problems but I don't grow pastes (they are a lot more sensitive usually).
Wrap the containers in something like aluminium foil to prevent the soil getting hot (if that is a problem) and also use a moderately low in N fertilizer.
I would try finding some calcium chelates instead of nitrate, it will provide the Ca but without the N. But in case you can't, the nitrate should still be better than nothing.

taboule · July 20, 2015

I've had the worst year with BER this season, and may be able to confirm (based on my experience) one contributing factor>> it's partly due to uneven/insufficient watering. Here's the data.

I decided to try fabric bags this year, got a bunch from 3 gal to 15 gal. Used the small ones for peppers, the bigger ones for tomatoes.

Planted 2 large indeterminates in 10 g bags, and although plants are 5ft tall and healthy looking, loaded with fruit, EVERY one of them got BER. I must have plucked over 10x per plant, making a small pile next to each.

The same plant grown in the ground has already produced 2x 14 oz fruits that we'll have tonight for a salad.

2 or 3 other varieties in bags also got BER.

I surmise the bags dry quicker than plastic pots, and I've regularly fallen behind in watering them(to the point of wilting.)

Tried CalMag a couple of times, but it needs to be used at a constant schedule -more work than I can afford.

Finally set up the 2 large ones with drip irrigation, will wait and see if that improves it.

Gerardo · July 20, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by taboule

I've had the worst year with BER this season, and may be able to confirm (based on my experience) one contributing factor>> it's partly due to uneven/insufficient watering. Here's the data.

I decided to try fabric bags this year, got a bunch from 3 gal to 15 gal. Used the small ones for peppers, the bigger ones for tomatoes.

Planted 2 large indeterminates in 10 g bags, and although plants are 5ft tall and healthy looking, loaded with fruit, EVERY one of them got BER. I must have plucked over 10x per plant, making a small pile next to each.

The same plant grown in the ground has already produced 2x 14 oz fruits that we'll have tonight for a salad.

2 or 3 other varieties in bags also got BER.

I surmise the bags dry quicker than plastic pots, and I've regularly fallen behind in watering them(to the point of wilting.)

Tried CalMag a couple of times, but it needs to be used at a constant schedule -more work than I can afford.

Finally set up the 2 large ones with drip irrigation, will wait and see if that improves it.

The 3 gallon fabric bags dry quickly, the 15 gallons not so much. If you mulch them it really helps.
In my 20 and 25 gallon bags (from Aurora and the brown ones from Mad Farmer) it takes quite a few days (4-5) for them to show wilting.

I've only had one plant with bad BER in the fabric bags (out of 50 or so). I attribute it to adding crab meal and fish bone meal (both at 20% calcium by wt) to the potting mix initially and staying on top of the watering. The crab meal is really helpful because it's also good for soil critter control.

I get if for 8 dollars or so at the hydroponic store (5 lbs) and it goes a very long way. The fish bone meal is about the same price. Two generous handfuls of each per wheelbarrow of potting mix is plenty.

So in short, don't give up on the fabric bags so quickly, perhaps go a little larger volume for next year, and with the drip irrig I doubt you'll have any more drying issues.

Mulching really helps both for conserving the water once its in the mix, and while watering the plant too, as it helps to prevent that side runoff.

The 3 gallons, well, don't have suggestions for those.

Best of luck!

Father'sDaughter · July 20, 2015

Nutrients also get washed out of grow bags every time you water or it rains, so they need more frequent applications of fertilizers.

As reported in another thread, my tomatoes in grow bags using Wonder Soil started off setting tomatoes just fine in early June and they were receiving regular feedings with Texas Tomato Food. We went away for 2 1/2 weeks in mid June and while the plants received regular watering, they got no fertilizer. Almost every tomato that set during that 2 1/2 weeks developed BER. When we got home, I resumed the regular feedings with the TTF and every tomato that has set since has been free from BER.

stevenkh1 · July 20, 2015

I have heavy clay soil here and every year I've struggled with BER. I changed my entire planting routine and so far, no BER this year. Maybe be this will help you next year....

When planting, I now toss in a small handful of lime pellets (3:1 ratio of Calcium:Magnesium), combine with dirt, add water in the hole, put the plant down, cover with dirt, and water in.

Every week post planting until the first tomatoes form: I water via 5 foot PVC pipe (capped on bottom, 1/32" hole drilled at angle angle so water pours out about 6" from the pipe). I use gallon jugs, each with a scoop of MG's plant food and a tsp of the lime pellets in a gallon jug of milk (shaken well of course). You'll only get 1/2 gallon in a tube so a gallon will feed/water two plants.

Now that I have tomatoes starting to appear with NO BER (for the first time since I moved to Michigan), I'm going to try a different fertilizing regimen. I'm gonna change from MG tomato plant food to StaGreen Bulb and Bloom food (4-10-10) and the tsp of lime pellets to limit Nitrogen (plant growth) to focus on BER protection and fruit growth. I'm anxious to see if this works, so wish me luck! I hope some of this helps you.

I should add this works for soil and my 10 gal containers.

taboule · July 20, 2015

Gerardo, FDaughter and Steven, thanks for your ideas.

I am not giving up on the bags, but will only use the biggest next year for tomatoes, and incorporate some of your ideas AND timed drip irrigation from day 1.

My best plants in bags this year are a few eggplants, they're growing like giants compared to the ones in the ground. I am guessing the grey fabric absorbs the sun's rays and keeps the roots warm, plants seem to love it.

SharonRossy · July 21, 2015

taboule, I mostly container grow in smart pots or some type of fabric bag. In the initial mix, I add about two cups of lime, although I use promix which already has some and slow release ferts and epsom salts. My smallest bag is 15 gallon and I use 20 gallon as well.
Watering is crucial as they do dry out faster and need a water soluble fertilizer as well weekly or so. I went away for four days and left the watering to my husband. Needless to say, my plants were severely dehydrated and I have been picking off tomatoes with BER ever since. I'm not saying it was necessarily just that event, but I'm sure it's contributed to it. Container growing has it's own challenges. I have also experienced BER with inground planting, but less so.
When planting, MG makes a slow release with micronutrients at 9-4-12 and it has alot of calcium in it. I find it a really good fertilizer and for a water soluble, they have a 18-18-21 with micronutrients specifically for tomatoes and vegetables. I don't have all the other brands available in Montreal. But we do have some other very good brands as well.
I agree with Gerardo, don't give up on the bags. I personally love them, and because it's a soiless mix, much less disease issues. Mulching definitely helps. The bags help the roots to breathe.
Just my opinion. good luck!
Sharon

HeatherT · July 21, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by taboule

Gerardo, FDaughter and Steven, thanks for your ideas.

I am not giving up on the bags, but will only use the biggest next year for tomatoes, and incorporate some of your ideas AND timed drip irrigation from day 1.

My best plants in bags this year are a few eggplants, they're growing like giants compared to the ones in the ground. I am guessing the grey fabric absorbs the sun's rays and keeps the roots warm, plants seem to love it.

Take a look at this thread by Luigiwu, the system is self watering and the results are outstanding. I was going to run a modified setup of this but injured my back in May so no garden this year.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=37141
Opps, link added

Heather

ricman · July 21, 2015

Hello Taboule,

I grow in the Walmart fabric bags .50 cents each, they hold about 5 gallons of potting mix each. Check out Larry Halls Rain Gutter Grow System on Youtube. Luigiwu also grows with the RGGS with fantastic results . I am on my 3rd season growing with the RGGS and have not suffered from BER. I do add lime and Epsom salts to my mix and the constant water supply is a great benefit to preventing BER. Good luck gardening...

Rick

DonnaMarieNJ · July 21, 2015

It was one of my worst years, also, with BER. I assume it had to do with the weather. I can't tell you how many fruit I had to throw out.

NarnianGarden · July 21, 2015

I hate it!

Two beautiful large tomatoes affected already, just when I was looking forward to seeing their color change. Black Seaman was the first 'fried green tomato' of the season. Sauteed in olive oil and sprinkled with gourmet salt, it was worth eating - but I rather see the fruits ripening and reaching their mature old age

Currently I have one Zolotoy Korol (a heart) with BER hanging on the truss. I remembered that hearts are especially prone to this malady... With the crazy weather it has been hard to establish a watering pattern, normal amounts of water don't seem to suffice and the extra might be the reason they're rotting. ah well... praying for wisdom!

SharonRossy · July 21, 2015

BER is a heart breaker, that's for sure. One plus of the fabric bags is that no matter how much it rains, they drain.
NarnianGarden, it's so true, not enough water, too much water, heat, cold. It's been raining most of today and I'm afraid to go out and see what's happening.....

Kikaida · July 21, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by taboule

My best plants in bags this year are a few eggplants, they're growing like giants compared to the ones in the ground. I am guessing the grey fabric absorbs the sun's rays and keeps the roots warm, plants seem to love it.

Not to hi-jack the thread but my eggplant has been effortless in its 10 gallon bag, tons of fruit.

July 19, 2015	#1
encore Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: wisconsin Posts: 536	BER starting to get some BER on my two margharita paste tomato plants, they hatched many dozens of fruits in a few days, the early fruits (the bigger ones)seem to be fine. I've kept water in the bottom trays under the buckets, so they have always had water. does that blossom end rot spray you can buy work at all? what else can I do to ease up on the BER? tom

July 20, 2015	#7
stevenkh1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 172	I have heavy clay soil here and every year I've struggled with BER. I changed my entire planting routine and so far, no BER this year. Maybe be this will help you next year.... When planting, I now toss in a small handful of lime pellets (3:1 ratio of Calcium:Magnesium), combine with dirt, add water in the hole, put the plant down, cover with dirt, and water in. Every week post planting until the first tomatoes form: I water via 5 foot PVC pipe (capped on bottom, 1/32" hole drilled at angle angle so water pours out about 6" from the pipe). I use gallon jugs, each with a scoop of MG's plant food and a tsp of the lime pellets in a gallon jug of milk (shaken well of course). You'll only get 1/2 gallon in a tube so a gallon will feed/water two plants. Now that I have tomatoes starting to appear with NO BER (for the first time since I moved to Michigan), I'm going to try a different fertilizing regimen. I'm gonna change from MG tomato plant food to StaGreen Bulb and Bloom food (4-10-10) and the tsp of lime pellets to limit Nitrogen (plant growth) to focus on BER protection and fruit growth. I'm anxious to see if this works, so wish me luck! I hope some of this helps you. I should add this works for soil and my 10 gal containers. Last edited by stevenkh1; July 20, 2015 at 12:17 PM.

July 21, 2015	#12
DonnaMarieNJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Northeast New Jersey Posts: 728	It was one of my worst years, also, with BER. I assume it had to do with the weather. I can't tell you how many fruit I had to throw out. __________________ DonnaMarieNJ I pay the mortgage, but my cats own the house!

July 19, 2015	#2
Bipetual Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Illinois, zone 5a Posts: 579	I've used it, but honestly it's hard to know how well it works. Used as directed, it really can't hurt. Or you could mix in a teaspoon of calcium nitrate in a glass of water and put it in your saucers once a week. Earthbox users call this "the snack". They sell the powder on Amazon. You just have to keep it dry in an airtight container. This year I mixed about a cup of dolmitic lime into my soil for my self-watering buckets like the earthbox folks do, which you can think about for next year. It provides calcium and magnesium in the right proportion. I used the brand called Espoma Garden Lime. It also helps level out the ph of the mix if it's peat based. BER is a weirdly complex problem. Sometimes you can do nothing and it will stop happening by itself. Most paste types are prone to it. If you are like me, which is to say you start out with a perfectly reasonable number of containers but want to keep adding to your collection to grow more stuff, and you really want to grow pastes, you might want to consider trying an Earthbox for them next year. People who use them say following the directions for setup and using the snack once a week equals no BER, especially after the first year if you reuse the mix because you still have residual calcium in the mix that has already broken down from the lime, plus each year you add fresh lime. Sorry this is so long. I hope you find some of it to be helpful, and I encourage you to ignore the rest!

July 20, 2015	#3
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	I am growing in peat based soil, and the calcium present in tap water seems sufficient. I rarely have ber problems but I don't grow pastes (they are a lot more sensitive usually). Wrap the containers in something like aluminium foil to prevent the soil getting hot (if that is a problem) and also use a moderately low in N fertilizer. I would try finding some calcium chelates instead of nitrate, it will provide the Ca but without the N. But in case you can't, the nitrate should still be better than nothing.

July 20, 2015	#4
taboule Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: MA Posts: 903	I've had the worst year with BER this season, and may be able to confirm (based on my experience) one contributing factor>> it's partly due to uneven/insufficient watering. Here's the data. I decided to try fabric bags this year, got a bunch from 3 gal to 15 gal. Used the small ones for peppers, the bigger ones for tomatoes. Planted 2 large indeterminates in 10 g bags, and although plants are 5ft tall and healthy looking, loaded with fruit, EVERY one of them got BER. I must have plucked over 10x per plant, making a small pile next to each. The same plant grown in the ground has already produced 2x 14 oz fruits that we'll have tonight for a salad. 2 or 3 other varieties in bags also got BER. I surmise the bags dry quicker than plastic pots, and I've regularly fallen behind in watering them(to the point of wilting.) Tried CalMag a couple of times, but it needs to be used at a constant schedule -more work than I can afford. Finally set up the 2 large ones with drip irrigation, will wait and see if that improves it.

July 20, 2015	#6
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,917	Nutrients also get washed out of grow bags every time you water or it rains, so they need more frequent applications of fertilizers. As reported in another thread, my tomatoes in grow bags using Wonder Soil started off setting tomatoes just fine in early June and they were receiving regular feedings with Texas Tomato Food. We went away for 2 1/2 weeks in mid June and while the plants received regular watering, they got no fertilizer. Almost every tomato that set during that 2 1/2 weeks developed BER. When we got home, I resumed the regular feedings with the TTF and every tomato that has set since has been free from BER.

July 21, 2015	#9
SharonRossy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,140	taboule, I mostly container grow in smart pots or some type of fabric bag. In the initial mix, I add about two cups of lime, although I use promix which already has some and slow release ferts and epsom salts. My smallest bag is 15 gallon and I use 20 gallon as well. Watering is crucial as they do dry out faster and need a water soluble fertilizer as well weekly or so. I went away for four days and left the watering to my husband. Needless to say, my plants were severely dehydrated and I have been picking off tomatoes with BER ever since. I'm not saying it was necessarily just that event, but I'm sure it's contributed to it. Container growing has it's own challenges. I have also experienced BER with inground planting, but less so. When planting, MG makes a slow release with micronutrients at 9-4-12 and it has alot of calcium in it. I find it a really good fertilizer and for a water soluble, they have a 18-18-21 with micronutrients specifically for tomatoes and vegetables. I don't have all the other brands available in Montreal. But we do have some other very good brands as well. I agree with Gerardo, don't give up on the bags. I personally love them, and because it's a soiless mix, much less disease issues. Mulching definitely helps. The bags help the roots to breathe. Just my opinion. good luck! Sharon

July 21, 2015	#11
ricman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ardmore,Oklahoma Posts: 172	Hello Taboule, I grow in the Walmart fabric bags .50 cents each, they hold about 5 gallons of potting mix each. Check out Larry Halls Rain Gutter Grow System on Youtube. Luigiwu also grows with the RGGS with fantastic results . I am on my 3rd season growing with the RGGS and have not suffered from BER. I do add lime and Epsom salts to my mix and the constant water supply is a great benefit to preventing BER. Good luck gardening... Rick

July 21, 2015	#13
NarnianGarden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Finland, EU Posts: 2,550	I hate it! Two beautiful large tomatoes affected already, just when I was looking forward to seeing their color change. Black Seaman was the first 'fried green tomato' of the season. Sauteed in olive oil and sprinkled with gourmet salt, it was worth eating - but I rather see the fruits ripening and reaching their mature old age Currently I have one Zolotoy Korol (a heart) with BER hanging on the truss. I remembered that hearts are especially prone to this malady... With the crazy weather it has been hard to establish a watering pattern, normal amounts of water don't seem to suffice and the extra might be the reason they're rotting. ah well... praying for wisdom!