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Old December 3, 2013   #16
tomatoaddict
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I have grown Muchamiel and I think it made my "waste of garden space" list. The Spanish like their tomatoes as Carolyn said more firm and tart. Not very appealing to the American palate. The RAF tomato is another example of the firm tart they like. I have grown some Spanish heirlooms that were very good but they didn't fit the common characteristics they look for.
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Old August 8, 2015   #17
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Since I recently joined TV I am slowly catching up on old threads. I am amused that nobody has mentioned that "mucha miel" in Spanish means "much honey" which would imply that it is a sweet tomato. Yet everybody here says it is tart. I'm curious how Muchamiel compares to the regular, ostensibly more tart Spanish tomatoes? Brix info might be interesting.

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Old August 8, 2015   #18
carolyn137
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Originally Posted by AdrianaG View Post
Since I recently joined TV I am slowly catching up on old threads. I am amused that nobody has mentioned that "mucha miel" in Spanish means "much honey" which would imply that it is a sweet tomato. Yet everybody here says it is tart. I'm curious how iMuchamiel compares to the regular, ostensibly more tart Spanish tomatoes? Brix info might be interesting.
Yes, I do know that mucha miel means honey and who and why it was named that I have no idea, as you can see my general comment in Post #7 about tart varieties being preferred in Spain. They prefer eating underripe ones that have green shoulders and initially I thought that was why they were tart, but no, let them ripen up and still the same.

Maybe the honey part was b'c they had to dribble good bee honey on them to make them sweeter. And for home growers in Spain I doubt any of them do Brix levels, the commercial tomato producers who now grown mainly hybrid varieties yes, but I don't know the specific F1's they grow. Spain is a major source of tomato powder and other tomato products in Europe.

And yes, I have visited Spain.

Going from Tania's list of Spanish tomatoes these are the ones I have grown:

Dos Mercados
Monserrat
Muchamiel
Ras
Tre Cantos

And I've saved the best for last.

In Spain it was called Huevos De Toro, but it turns out that there was more than ONE named the same from info given to us here at Tville by Ilex, who is from Spain.

I won't go into all the details, far too complicated, but a red one made its way to France where it was renamed by Robin as Couilles de Taureau and I first met it, if you will, as a trade with Reinhard Kraft in Germany whom I've known for a very long time.

I loved it and sent seeds for it to the vendors I normally send seeds to for trial. Superb taste and also production for such a large fruited Variety.

Here's Tania's page for Huevos De Toro;

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Couilles_De_Taureau

Note that she does not list Couilles in her major list, only saying that it is the same as Huevos De Taureau, and it was not renamed by Angelo. She also said she hoped the original name could be kept, but Tania didn't know that there were others in Spain also named the same and not all were red, again, that info from Ilex.

I was kind of in the midst of a kerfuffle about this variety when a Tville member insisted that the history was wrong, I then contacted Tomato Addict, Terry, who owns that wonderful seed site called the Secret Seed Cartel, who is fluent in French to find out what she could from her French contacts and she visits France at least once a year.

And it was she who found out the whole story and e-mailed me all about it.

There is one seed site I will not name that does have the wrong history, I won't go into that at all.


Summary?

All theSpanish varieties I've grown with the above exception have not worked well for me as to taste, but I could also say the same thing about most of the older English varieties as well.

All to say that Couilles de Taureau, nee a RED Huevos D Toro, is the only exception to tartness that I know of except for what are called colgar, or winter tomatoes, which have both Italian and Spanish origins , I haven't grown them but others have and like them very much since the vines are pulled out and strung up and the ripe tomatoes last a very long time. Someone once told me that they harken back to the times when there were no fridges, no way to really preserve tomatoes for the winter.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn
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Old August 8, 2015   #19
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I grow more than thirty varieties of Spanish tomatoes. Among them, a lot of pink and red. Their taste is comparable with such tomatoes as Brandywine Suduth's, Neves Azorean Red, etc.
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Old August 8, 2015   #20
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Love the history lesson Carolyn, especially the Huevos de Toro! Im surprised that they are a round tomato. I was expecting a more pendulous one.
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Old August 8, 2015   #21
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Love the history lesson Carolyn, especially the Huevos de Toro! Im surprised that they are a round tomato. I was expecting a more pendulous one.
If you look at Tania's page for it you'll see that she says it's beefsteak shaped and if I enter Couillles D Taureau at Google, same as the RED Huevos, IMAGES that's also what you see.

With IMAGES put your mouse over the picture to see the origin of the picture and anything with semances as an origin is From France.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...45.8G9ZxpIpOeA

I said that the name was changed from Huevos to Couillies and said it was Robin, but I now remember that his name is Roland Robin.

All I ever got with it was beefsteak shaped ones as well, somtimes pleated, some times not.

Just curious but what does pendulous mean to you when describing a tomato shape for I haven't seen that word applied to tomato shape before, and why would you expect a pedulous shape for Huevos/Couilles?

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Old August 8, 2015   #22
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Originally Posted by AdrianaG View Post
Since I recently joined TV I am slowly catching up on old threads. I am amused that nobody has mentioned that "mucha miel" in Spanish means "much honey" which would imply that it is a sweet tomato. Yet everybody here says it is tart. I'm curious how iMuchamiel compares to the regular, ostensibly more tart Spanish tomatoes? Brix info might be interesting.
Hello Everyone. I have been farming too much, but enjoy eating the tomatoes, Amen!!

I agree with you I received my seeds a Customer who have been growing his Native Muchameil Tomatoes for decades. I eat them up to the point I can't help myself. They taste like sweet tomato pizza sauce.

Do your Muchamiel Tomatoes like this:

http://www.angelfieldfarms.com/store...%E2%80%9D.html

I Donated some of these seeds to the Seed Saver Exchange last year.
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Old August 8, 2015   #23
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Hello Everyone. I have been farming too much, but enjoy eating the tomatoes, Amen!!

I agree with you I received my seeds a Customer who have been growing his Native Muchameil Tomatoes for decades. I eat them up to the point I can't help myself. They taste like sweet tomato pizza sauce.

Do your Muchamiel Tomatoes like this:

http://www.angelfieldfarms.com/store...%E2%80%9D.html

I Donated some of these seeds to the Seed Saver Exchange last year.
Joyce,I see you donated seeds to SSE but it was first listed in the Gurney seed catalog as Muchamiel in 1985 and several SSE members got it from there and it's been SSE listed in the Yearbook now for many years and is still listed in the 2015 SSE YEarbook.

When folks SSE list a variety for many years SSE would send that person money to pay for any varieties they offered that SSE didn't have in their seed bank, and since in my 1993 SSE YEarbook it was listed, at that time they were still listing it so already have it.

The person listing it in the 2015 Yearbook, for members only, got it from an SSE member who is from Spain and who lists 72 varieties in the current Yearbook.

If you ever want to donate seeds to SSE again, as you have before, why don't you ask me to check my Yearbooks to be sure SSE doesn't already have it.

Lastly, could I please plead with you NOT to change the name to The Spaniards? The variety is known everywhere as Muchamiel and I think it's best to never change an original name to something else.

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Old August 8, 2015   #24
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Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Joyce,I see you donated seeds to SSE but it was first listed in the Gurney seed catalog as Muchamiel in 1985 and several SSE members got it from there and it's been SSE listed in the Yearbook now for many years and is still listed in the 2015 SSE YEarbook.

When folks SSE list a variety for many years SSE would send that person money to pay for any varieties they offered that SSE didn't have in their seed bank, and since in my 1993 SSE YEarbook it was listed, at that time they were still listing it so already have it.

The person listing it in the 2015 Yearbook, for members only, got it from an SSE member who is from Spain and who lists 72 varieties in the current Yearbook.

If you ever want to donate seeds to SSE again, as you have before, why don't you ask me to check my Yearbooks to be sure SSE doesn't already have it.

Lastly, could I please plead with you NOT to change the name to The Spaniards? The variety is known everywhere as Muchamiel and I think it's best to never change an original name to something else.

Carolyn
Thanks Mrs Carolyn
I will not change the Name but many people have this tomato listed as on the sour/or bitter side, when it is very sweet. I guess the Staff at the Seed Saver Exchange is still laughing at my request to change the name. I was almost joking!!!! I will not change the name but I do call them My Spaniards when I eat them.

The only problem that I am having is some or most list Muchamiel Tomatoes as bitter tasting or sour. ""They are not". Is it possible that some people are growing the Kumato that was developed with from the Muchamiel and others. I think thought natural cross.

Maybe, this year I will have time to fill out the paper work to list my varieties with them.
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Old August 8, 2015   #25
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Dr. C About the pendulous description, in my mind I have an avocado shape for tomatoes named after testicles. The term avocado derives from the Aztec nahuatle, which means testicle.
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Old August 8, 2015   #26
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Thanks Mrs Carolyn
I will not change the Name but many people have this tomato listed as on the sour/or bitter side, when it is very sweet. I guess the Staff at the Seed Saver Exchange is still laughing at my request to change the name. I was almost joking!!!! I will not change the name but I do call them My Spaniards when I eat them.

The only problem that I am having is some or most list Muchamiel Tomatoes as bitter tasting or sour. ""They are not". Is it possible that some people are growing the Kumato that was developed with from the Muchamiel and others. I think thought natural cross.

Maybe, this year I will have time to fill out the paper work to list my varieties with them.
Joyce, Kumato was not developed from Muchamiel, please see these links;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumato

http://www.kumato.com/en/Pages/Faq.aspx

And now Terry of the Secret Seed Cartel web site pointing out all the bad information that has been putout about Kumato.

http://tomatoaddict.blogspot.com/200...sso-bruno.html

It's not surprising to me that you might experience the taste of Muchamiel as sweet while others do not. That happens all the time with many varieties since taste is personal and perceptual and even has a human genetic factor involved.

Above you said that this year you might have time to do the paperwork to list your varieties with SSE .

Are you an SSE member now and have paid the dues? If so there's no paperwork necessary to become a listed member but yes, you do have to request and fill out the sheets for each variety you intend to list and return it by the due date which is usually in early November.

My choice, but I no longer list varieties for anything for the SSE paper yearbook nor the online version, etc.

Carolyn
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Old August 9, 2015   #27
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Originally Posted by Fred Hempel View Post
"Hello

I will for the first time be growing a tomato from Spain in 2014:

Is called Muchamiel

Do you know everything about the back ground you can share with us."

Posted by Mrs. Justice
Name comes from it's towm of origin, Muchamiel, Alicante, not because it is very sweet. It is a well known variety as it's fairly commercial and because its quite good (among commercial varieties ). There are also quite a few other things sold under that name. It was one of the commercial varieties before the hybrids.

I haven't grown it myself. What I've heard is that it's not that special.

There are also quite a few varieties accross all Spain under this same name, but most are very rare.
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Old August 9, 2015   #28
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The Spanish people prefer varieties that are eaten underripe, most have prominent green shoulders and even when ripe are tart.
I do not agree, and I do know a few people from Spain.

I agree it's almost impossible to buy a good tomato, or eat a good one at a restaurant in Spain.

Most old Spanish varieties are very, very good, with thin skins and very delicate flesh. We like good food, and most tomatoes were selected with flavour in mind.

Diversity here is huge, we have over 3000 varieties left. Most people pick tomatoes ripe on the vine, green ones were those sent to market as it was impossible to ship old varieties ripe. It's a problem with the market side, not with the farmer or the varieties.

For example, I have many varieties better than ... Rose de Berne, Neves Azorean, Barlow Jap or Pink Berkeley Tie-Dye.

Last edited by ilex; August 9, 2015 at 07:43 AM.
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Old August 9, 2015   #29
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I do not agree, and I do know a few people from Spain.

I agree it's almost impossible to buy a good tomato, or eat a good one at a restaurant in Spain.

Most old Spanish varieties are very, very good, with thin skins and very delicate flesh. We like good food, and most tomatoes were selected with flavour in mind.

Diversity here is huge, we have over 3000 varieties left. Most people pick tomatoes ripe on the vine, green ones were those sent to market as it was impossible to ship old varieties ripe. It's a problem with the market side, not with the farmer or the varieties.

For example, I have many varieties better than ... Rose de Berne, Neves Azorean, Barlow Jap or Pink Berkeley Tie-Dye.
Ilex, you have no idea howpleased I am to see that you are posting b'c I consider you an expert on Spanish tomatoes and there has been lots of talk here recently about them.

Several years ago you were the one who said that there were several different ones all named Huevos D Toro, possibly even different colors, and I was asking about the red one which made its way to France and was renamed Couillies de Taureau by Roland Robin.

Maybe you don't remember, but I certainly do b/c it helped me, and then others to know about the origin of Couilles de Taureau.And that variety, one of the Huevos ones (red), is absolutely outstanding with regard to taste and production

About the tart taste of the ones I listed from Spain that I'd grown. All I can say is that they were tart to me and the same for others who posted in this thread.

But if you have some varieties better than Neves Azorean Red and the others you mentioned, here I am and open to any trades possible with ones (not Spanish ones) that I have been offering in my annual seed offers here at Tville, the now very late 2015 one I hope to get up within the next few weeks, and then the 2016 one which should go up in January, fingers crossed, if seed production by my seed producers goes well this summer, and several of those seed producers have been having weather problems. After 2004 when I fell and got put into this walker I decided to find varieties that would be new to all ormost and have been very successful in doing that sonew ones from Romania,Slovenia, Italy, Turkey,Germany, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, France and elsewhere as well as new ones from folks here in the US.

Again, I'm so glad to see you posting here and please continue to do so. In a way just seeing you post reminds me of my trip to Spain and Portugal and Morocco that I made quite a few years ago and being able to better remember all the wonderful places in Spain, especially, that I visited.

Carolyn
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Old August 9, 2015   #30
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Joyce, Kumato was not developed from Muchamiel, please see these links;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumato

http://www.kumato.com/en/Pages/Faq.aspx

And now Terry of the Secret Seed Cartel web site pointing out all the bad information that has been putout about Kumato.

http://tomatoaddict.blogspot.com/200...sso-bruno.html

It's not surprising to me that you might experience the taste of Muchamiel as sweet while others do not. That happens all the time with many varieties since taste is personal and perceptual and even has a human genetic factor involved.

Above you said that this year you might have time to do the paperwork to list your varieties with SSE .

Are you an SSE member now and have paid the dues? If so there's no paperwork necessary to become a listed member but yes, you do have to request and fill out the sheets for each variety you intend to list and return it by the due date which is usually in early November.

My choice, but I no longer list varieties for anything for the SSE paper yearbook nor the online version, etc.

Carolyn
Yes, I have always been A member and made donations for many of years on behalf of all the work "You" Greg, Tomato-man, The Wanger's, etc. ct. under Joyce Beggs Since 1998.
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Last edited by MrsJustice; August 9, 2015 at 01:01 PM. Reason: Dyslexia
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