Garden Soil Treatment!

[DonDuck]

One of the loose marbles that tends to roll around in my head is labeled "vinegar treatment of garden soil". I've never read anything on the subject, but I've wondered if the acetic acid in a vinegar drench would have any effect on the soil pathogens and critters like nematodes and fungal spores commonly found in gardens. I've also wondered if the acid would convert some non soluble minerals like phosphate and iron into soluble minerals available for uptake by garden plants. I don't really want to lower the ph of the soil long term, but I think the soil minerals would quickly neutralize the acidity. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[jillian]

Here is a discussion.... https://www.houzz.com/discussions/21...on-your-garden

Seems like Worth addressed this in a thread, I could be wrong.

The most purposeful application of vinegar for me has been to kill weeds
1 gallon vinegar, 1 cup salt and a good tbsp. Dishwashing liquid.

[Worth1]

Here is the low down on what I did.
I was gone for two weeks and my tomato plants didn't do hardly anything.
It was on drip and had plenty of 13-13-13 in it.

Checked the pH with a pH meter all the eye dropper experts here say is worthless and it read over 8.
Checked it with another method and it read the same thing.
Put vinegar in a cup of the soil and it foamed like root beer.
All three of these methods told me the pH was over the top.

Spread Ironite all over the top of the garden.
Filled up an ortho dial and spray with 5% acidity vinegar +MG plant food and put it on its 2nd highest setting.
Washed the whole garden down and then rinsed off the plants.
The soil was foaming like someone had dumped a bunch of beer out.

Soon there after less than 2 days the garden exploded with growth.
Why is it so alkali?
I boiled water and collected the white powder and put it in a burner for a color flame test.
It read calcium.

After the great experiment I checked the pH again and it read down around 6 with my junky test equipment.
I dont really care how accurate it is as long as I get results.

PS The raised bed soil I had delivered had decomposed granite and some gypsum in it too.
Not giving advice, just sharing results of what I do.


Worth

[decherdt]

In our native black limestone derived clays, permanent Ph reduction is unlikely. And over here our city water is mid 8.x Ph also. Sulfur is traditional (slow) Ph reducer. I till in a few pounds of soil sulfur along and some ammonium sulfate in the Fall. I have used vinegar in water but this year been using about a tablespoon of PhDown acid per 5 gallons in watering and soluble fertilizering to get about a 6.0 Ph water, and hand watering 54 plants. Getting to be a bigger chore each time, might have to test an injector

[MissS]

My grandfather lived in Florida and would water his Gardenias with diluted vinegar to green them up. It did help them rather rapidly to absorb iron and reduce chlorosis. When I first started gardening I had very little money. My soil was alkaline. I sprayed it with diluted vinegar. The plants perked up and my ph dropped down to 6. Of course this is just a temporary measure and needs to be repeated from time to time.

[DonDuck]

Educate me a little please! Why is it believed the results of a vinegar (acid) drench are only temporary. My soil is probably sixty percent organic because of my many years of gardening activities so I'm not really concerned about the ph level. I'm mostly interested in the soluble minerals which may or may not become available as nutrients. I have a twenty lb. bag of sulfur in my shop which was purchased for the same purpose, but I ran out of time to apply it before it was necessary to plant out. Not knowing the acid concentration result of the sulfur, I didn't want to add it too close to plant out.

[nbardo]

Spraying vinegar will kill amphibians it comes in contact with like frogs and toads. Not saying anyone should or shouldnt try it. Just something to be aware of.


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[MissS]

Just like nitrogen, vinegar is water soluble and is easily washed out/leached from the soil. As the ph reverts to it's original state, the minerals become locked up once again. PH and mineral uptake go hand in hand. If the ph is off then so is the mineral availability. Now I do not live in Texas, but I do have alkaline soil due to all of the limestone in my area. By adding plenty of organic matter I have adjusted the ph naturally which allows for the uptake of most of the minerals.

What mineral deficiency are your plants showing?

[DonDuck]

I haven't had a soil test run because It would require 8 tests for eight raised beds. Their makeup is quite different between each bed. Judging by the slightly yellow color of most plants, I am guessing I need iron in my soil. It hasn't effected the productivity of the plants or the growth and overall health of the plants, but I am looking at the future and how I will manage the soil/soils next winter in preparation for my 2019 garden. I will probably simply use the sulfur I already have to amend the soil, but I would like to possibly use some vinegar throughout this growing season. I'm just trying to determine if the vinegar will be harmful or helpful short term or long term. I probably won't use the vinegar because I do have a lot of toads, frogs; and lizards as well as earth worms in my garden. I have no idea what vinegar will do to earth worms.

[Worth1]

You might consider ironite.
Worth

[DonDuck]

I've used Ironite, but it's effects are short lived due to the fact that it only contains 1% iron. It has become very expensive for what it is which is basically a pellitized waste product from old mines.

[MissS]

It could also be a magnesium deficiency. A soil test would work wonders, but short of that, the easiest thing to do would be to spray your beds with the plants in them with 1 Tablespoon of Epsom Salts to 1 gallon of water. If the plants green up using this then there is no need to add anything else. You will be good to go with a few cheap sprays of Epsom Salts throughout the season.

A cheap way to get an idea of your soil ph would be to purchase a ph soil testing kit. These are rather inexpensive. They are not very accurate but will give you a general idea of the ph of what you are working with. You can find these at a garden center or online.

[sjamesNorway]

I've read that ironite is toxic waste, containing arsenic and lead:

Tests by the states of Minnesota, Washington and Oregon show that "...the product contains up to 6020 parts per million arsenic and 3400 parts per million lead...tests indicated that up to 36% of the arsenic and up to 81% of the lead is bioavailable." http://dynamics.org/Altenberg/PROJEC...sumerFacts.pdf

I wouldn't use it. (just saying...)

Steve

[b54red]

If you use a hose end sprayer and try a weaker solution like one or two ounces of vinegar to the gallon you shouldn't harm the reptiles in your garden and it might be enough to unlock some of the minerals your plants need. I do this every year and gradually increase the amount of vinegar in the concentrate as the plants get larger. I made the mistake of using too much with some small tomato plants and they died of phosphorous overload while the larger plants just greened up with the higher dose. I believe it was either 4 or 6 ounces of vinegar to a gallon that caused the problem with the small plants. My soil is excessively high in phosphorous due to years of adding cow manure to my beds and having soil with a ph that is far too high. I found that the vinegar treatment helps release iron and phosphorous that is locked up in the soil but I have to be careful not to release too much at once so I opt for doing it more gradually with a lower concentration of vinegar and to gradually lower my ph by adding things like cottonseed meal, peat and pine bark fines. My ph has gone from over 8 to around 7 but still I need to use the vinegar treatment occasionally with peppers and tomatoes.

Bill

[Worth1]

I cant think of a better way to spread out the toxic waste from iron mining.
Each person gets their share from the products that comes from iron.
Here is your car and here is the toxic waste produced from making it.

Worth