Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old September 4, 2019   #16
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

i tried the first ripe tomato off plant no.2 an orange plum tomato.
it had good flavor with an acid bite. we had a bunch of rain yesterday, so was
expecting a watered down taste. i was pleasantly surprised. this will be one worth pursuing. one more is finishing ripening on the window sill. i'll have to let my wife have
a bite of this one.



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16, 2019   #17
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

sampled plant 3 fat orange plum.

flavor decent
texture was on the mealy side. due to weather or the tomato itself i dunno.
a fair amount of seeds in each tomato. like the others though, on the dry side.
not a lot of juice in them.
squeezed out seeds from several tomatoes, and they are fermenting.

plant no.2 (not) orange plum, but pink plum
tomatoes are ripening on the sill. they sure look pink to me. seed saving will start soon on those.
this one is most subject to blossom end rot.

plant no. 1 pink plum
tomatoes ripening on sill for seed saving.
of the three larger plum type tomatoes, i think this one has the best flavor so far.
seem to be taking the longest to ripen after the first two tomatoes



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.

Last edited by rxkeith; September 16, 2019 at 01:06 PM. Reason: color
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 17, 2019   #18
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

plant no. 2 pink plum seeds are squeezed.

this is one meaty tomato. a few seeds, very little juice. i squeezed hard. might make a good cooking or sauce tomato in the future.



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 27, 2019   #19
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

seeds are drying for all five plants now.

my modest little project has given me better in sight of what all of you have done in creating new varieties.

looking forward to next year, i need to decide how i want to proceed.
the obvious ones for me to grow are the little oxheart, and the small pear tomato.
those two are the earliest, and the best tasting. third place would be plant no.1 pink plum. decent flavor, less blossom end rot than pink plum no.2.

but then, what about the other two f2 seeds i have that haven't been grown yet?
one plant had a round cherry type fruit. the other plant had an elongated cherry type fruit. do i work them into the mix if i can and see if something else worth while comes out, or concentrate on just the f4 generation.
just how much more diversity will be in those f2 seeds that haven't been grown out compared to what appeared this year i wonder.

what would all y'all do that are stabilizing crosses? what has worked out best for you?



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 27, 2019   #20
Whwoz
Tomatovillian™
 
Whwoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 854
Default

Comes back to space and time Keith. The more space you have the more plants you can growout, the more you can compare between the ones you like more and like less. Space and time will limit how many of these you choose to grow - space is obvious, time will effect the project by way of record keeping, from tagging each plant to keep track of its ancestry so that you know what line it is from, to taking photos of each plant and its fruit (do not rely solely on memory, it can play tricks) and written descriptions are important particularly in relation to taste.

Then there is the decision that you may want to make about ones that you think are worth growing on but do not have room for - do you grow different lines in alternate years or do you offer seed/plants to others to grow on
Whwoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2019   #21
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

i have lots of space, but we like to grow other things too, not just tomatoes, and why didn't i grow sun gold my wife scolded me earlier in the year.
i am thinking i have to grow a pink plum next year in addition to the small pear/plum tomato, and the small oxheart type tomato. this year taste was too good to just leave on the shelf for a year. that would give me three tomatoes significantly different from each other. probably 4 to 5 plants again for diversity.

three of my five plants sized upward to tomatoes in the 6oz range i would guess.
in the f4 stage, can i expect any further sizing up in the two smaller tomatoes i plan
to regrow?

or could any of the larger tomatoes size downward again?

at what stage will size be pretty much fixed, assuming two open pollenated parents in the initial cross, and no further crossing occurs? can size continue to vary in the f4 generation or beyond?

in regards to flavor, i don't know how difficult it is to fix a consistent flavor during the
stabilizing process. i know it depends on what you are dealing with to some extant. by f6 or f7 generation i should expect a finished product one way or the other.



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29, 2020   #22
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

time to update.

planted today are seeds from three of the five plants i grew out last year.
these are f3 seeds, plants will be f4.

little red plum is my lempi line.
sweet flavor, prolific.

small red somewhat heart shape is my aili line.
has an acidic bite, good flavor, prolific.
rainy september caused a lot of late ripening fruit to split.

near full size pink plum is my mama helen line.
this one was a bit later than the other plants.
good flavor, prolific.

on the shelf for now is an orange plum, very meaty, not much juice.
flavor on the sweet side.

pink plum, similar to mama helen in size.
this one is on the shelf because it had more blossom end rot.
not as juicy as mama helen, and flavor not good.
still a good tomato. prolific.

six seeds of each were planted.




keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 15, 2020   #23
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

up and running.

six for six on lempi, and aili lines. one of the seedlings is stunted, appears to be tricot.
mama helen, only three out of six came up. three plants prolly isn't enough diversity at the f4 stage, but thats what i have to work with this year.
very curious to see what develops this year.



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5, 2020   #24
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

most plants are doing well after transplanting. they are about 4 to 5 inches tall, and will
need to be moved to the basement to keep the growth slow, but steady. that and i need
room on the plant stand in the upstairs bedroom.

i noticed two different foliage types on the lempi line, the smaller plum tomato, similar
in shape to maglia rosa only bigger. some have rounder lobe leaves while two plants
have narrower jagged shaped leaves like the anna russian parent.
no clue how that will translate to tomato characteristics, but thats all i got for now.

i planted several more mama helen line seeds april 20th, and have only one vigorous
seedling to show for it. poor germination for some reason with this line.
i told my sister i will be naming a tomato in development after our mom.
sister asked if it would be called "mother theresa i am not"
i replied, nah, too long of a name.



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11, 2020   #25
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

early observations from the garden.


growing are four aili line, five lempi, line, and three mama helen line f4 plants.

growth habits seem to be segregating.
last year all the plants grew as cherrry tomatoes would, tall, multi stem, flower
trusses all over the place.

this year, aili line look like conventional indeterminate plants. no fruit so far,
but has blossoms.


mama helen has two plants with two main stems, and a few flower trusses,
normal well behaved plants.
the third one is a multi stem plant with numerous flower trusses similar to
last years plants. two fruit on this plant fused at the stem end.

lempi line seems the most robust. all five plants appear to have cherry tomato
growth trait. small fruit on each plant are showing some differences. two look like
last years fruit with the sharp pointy end. a third plant has similar fruit with a dull end, and two plants have fruit that appear rounder in shape.


thats it for now.



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26, 2020   #26
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

update time


aili line plants all have tomatoes.
3 plants are showing round fruit with some faint ribbing at the shoulders.
one plant has fruit that are acting like they want to be heart shaped, but maybe
too soon to tell.


mama helen line is interesting.


the well behaved plant is producing round fruit. trusses have 5 to 6 blossoms.
i don't see this one being a heavy bearer or very early.


plant #2 is turning into a shrub. i can't put any more branches inside the tomato cage, too crowded. blossom trusses have 2 or 3 stems with 15 to 19 blossoms
per truss typically. the plant is starting to load up with plum tomatoes.
i don't know what you call this growth habit, but i like it. this plant is going to
f5 grow out for sure if the taste is there.


plant #3 is kind of an intermediate between the other two plants. the plant
is branching out a bit. trusses have about 10 to 12 blossoms typically, and plum
shaped fruit. this plant will be a little later.


none of the three plants display the cherry tomato growth pattern. i am guessing
that trait is bred out of this line, and i am expecting medium size fruit. not sure
when color will be stable. f3 plant was pink.


lempi line

all five plants have the rampant cherry tomato growth trait. i am thinking that trait is locked in. all appear to be very productive. i expect fruit size will be similar to the f3 plant from the plants that are bearing plum shaped tomatoes. the plant with round fruit probably salad size.



now, we wait for everything to get bigger, and start to color up.
then, that first taste.





keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12, 2020   #27
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

big surprise for me today.


while tending the tomato patch, staking up cages that got top heavy or the last storm blew over, i saw pink from deep inside the foliage of mama helen #2. four little plum
tomatoes were ripe or turning color. the ripest one was cracked likely due to the last
storm we had a few days ago. the color looked a bit anemic perhaps from being buried. i shared the very first one with my wife. flavor was sweet, and tangy, i would
say very good for first fruit. fruit size is small, 2 to 4 oz range about half the size of
the f3 parent. definitely a keeper.


mama helen #1 has perked up. tomatoes are round with slight ribbing, bigger than
golf ball size. they are still hard, so not sure what final size will be.

mama helen # 3 is producing plum shaped tomatoes. they may end up being larger
than #2 plant. fruit are still firm, but larger than the ripe ones from #2.


aili line.


i have one plant that has sized up a bit from the f3 parent. blocky shaped fruit are
about 6oz at grass green stage.

one plants tomatoes start off heart shaped, then turn blocky.

another plant has fruit that look like they are going to stay blunt heart shaped.
the fourth plant has fruit much like the f3 parent, blocky but with no intermediate heart
shaped fruit.


lempi line


all five plants are over six feet high, and still growing. four plants have plum shaped
fruit with variations; with nipple, no nipple, pear shape vs plum, blunt plum vs long plum.
fruit size is 2 to 4 oz, right about the same size as when the f3 parent fruit were getting ripe.
the outlier plant is producing oval fruit, just a bit longer in length than width. fruit
is still small approaching cherry tomato size.


plants all appear to be healthy except for some early blight that spread from the potatoes. i have been spraying with daconil in between rain showers. new growth is
far exceeding any leaf loss from disease.


that first taste, yesssssss






keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27, 2020   #28
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

finally, something else getting ripe.


i sampled fruit from two of the aili line plants. these were red tomatoes 2-4oz range.
flavor started off sweet then progressed to an assertive acidic finish. good tasting.
alili #1 is the smallest plant, but has the largest tomatoes of the line approaching
six oz. the tomatoes are the most heart shaped of them all. i am anxious for this one
to start ripening.


lempi line

one plant is giving me oval large cherry size pink tomatoes.
another plant is producing small pink plum type tomatoes, both
are sweet, and mild in flavor.
a third plant is producing small orange plum type tomatoes similar
to f3 parent. sweet flavor.
still waiting on two other plants to start ripening fruit.

mama helen line
seed saving has begun on #2 plant. it continues to pump out small pink plum
tomatoes about 3-4 oz. a clear winner in earliness, and productivity

plant #1 is still round and green.
plant #3 will have plum tomatoes a little bigger in size than plant #2



thats it from the northwoods






keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3, 2020   #29
JRinPA
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 923
Default

Hey, just read through this for the first time. I don't think I'd have the patience for this with only time for one round a year. Versus a warm weather area that could do 3 rounds per year. I'm glad you can hack it and willing to helps some of live vicariously through your post. Thanks.



Question, last year you said you had two different shapes of fruit on the same truss (post#4). Then later it sounds like that was resolved in that the two shapes were different early stages and eventually the fruit became one form...is that correct?


Also, since this seed was initially from and accidental cross...are you keeping these blossoms bagged to prevent further crossing? I have never bagged a blossom but I can see the need for it if you put a lot of time into sorting them out in the first place.


Keep it up, good thread.
JRinPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3, 2020   #30
rxkeith
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Back in da U.P.
Posts: 1,807
Default

jr, in answer to your question, yes.

the tomatoes when small had a pronounced heart shape. as they got bigger, they
filled out, and became more round, and blocky, maybe a blunt heart shape.
the tomatoes this year from that plant, my aili line is giving me more clearly defined
heart shaped tomatoes for the most part. alili line seems to have more assertive flavor.


this has been a fun project, but jeez, it is going to take awhile to explore what types
of tomatoes will turn up. an f3 orange plum, and pink plum are on the shelf this year,
and there are still two f2 lines that need to be grown out, and maybe i should grow
out more f1 seeds, to get some more f2 selections.
then, what do i carry forward next year from this years plants.
my goal initially is to stabilize some varieties on my own from start to finish.
i am realizing i may need to involve more people to grow out new lines at some point.
two growing seasons a year would sure help.


i have not bagged blossoms ever. crossing is always possible, but i haven't seen it that often in my garden.
the bumble bees have been very busy in the tomato patch
this year, so there could be some surprises with saved seed. time will tell.



keith
__________________
don't abort. we'll adopt.
rxkeith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 AM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2022 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★