Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

New to growing your own tomatoes? This is the forum to learn the successful techniques used by seasoned tomato growers. Questions are welcome, too.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old May 3, 2016   #1
dforrest
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Basque Country of Spain (green, wet)
Posts: 8
Default When to fertilize seedlings? And legginess issues

I made a bit of a late start on my seedlings. This is my first year growing my own. So now, May 3, I've got seedlings mostly with their first true leaves, some are starting on the second set. Official time to plant out in my area is May 15th.

My seedlings have come out very leggy, especially the tomatillos! One of them is so long it's fallen over and is lying down the length of the modules and is now reorienting itself to grow upward -- don't know what kind of a plant that will grow into, but suppose the bent part will get buried anyway once I plant out.

After poking around the forums a bit, I found the cold treatment method and popped the tray out of my heated, lighted germinator and stuck them on a table outside on a south-facing balcony but which gets little to no direct sunlight. It's 10°C/50°F now, forecast high today of 14°C/57°F and low tonight of 7°C/45°F. So maybe a bit colder than ideal, but OK I think. Hope they are not too shocked by the transition from their 25°C/77°F and bright light in the germinator. Due to space issues, there are some peppers in a few modules in the tray, I'm sure this is not ideal for them but they'll have to suck it up and be tough I suppose. I hope they don't stop growing, because I'm verrrry late with them.

Another issue I've noticed is that the green color of the leaves is getting lighter and yellower and I'm beginning to think they need fertilizing. And it struck me that I have no idea at all whether, when, or how much to fertilize seedlings.

I have a nice organic 10-9-7 with kelp and amino acids that's supposed to promote the growth phase of the plants... Should I just serve it up at regular strength for any old plant? More diluted? Concentrated? Not at all? Something else? I will undoubtedly mix in some Effective Microorganisms (from the local licensee of SDC).

I am trying to keep the soil just moist and honestly have only top sprayed once since planting the seeds. Since they've been under saran wrap and then in the germinator, the soil has stayed moist, even on top, and is just now seeming like it needs a watering.

Any advice much appreciated.
dforrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #2
Bulldog
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Georgia
Posts: 126
Default

use half strength fertilizer in your water, but yes they will need water. I was watering my seedlings every 2-3 days but it is warmer here. They will also need some light, and transitioning them out slowly is easier on them. How many weeks old are your plants and how tall are the tomatoes? How many seedlings to what size pot? Can you post a picture
Bulldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #3
clkeiper
Tomatovillian™
 
clkeiper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 4,350
Default

Leggines is due to lack of light and heat. cooler weather will make them stockier. also "brush" your hand gently over them once a day to stimulate wind or set a fan to gently blow over them. I use full strength fertilizer not everyone does, but I haven't found it to hurt them. too high of a concentration will, but that is if you don't dilute it properly. it won't hurt the tomatoes to wilt down either. I let mine sit in a perpetual state of wilt right now. It isn't time to get them in the garden and they are already 10" tall. getting beautiful, but they need to wait. I also am letting them stay cooler. You may not want to retard their growth since they aren't very big yet, but getting them to be stockier will be better for them to put in the garden.
__________________
carolyn k
clkeiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #4
drew51
Tomatovillian™
 
drew51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b
Posts: 1,302
Default

They like it when lows only go down to 50F, so you could probably plant out. But they need 2 weeks to get used to being outside and slowly, very slowly expose them to light. Yes bury the stems. I had room issues this year bigtime because I rooted about 25 fig cuttings. My plants are now used to outside, and night temps are at 40F. Kinda too cold, but they will not die, just be a little set back. They turn a little yellow. Still, they will grow to be fine plants. I had no choice but to boot them outside!
drew51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #5
dforrest
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Basque Country of Spain (green, wet)
Posts: 8
Default Pix of the babes

I planted all the tomatoes via the Saran Wrap method 19.5 days ago.

The leggiest seem to be about 11cm/4.3" tall at the moment, two of them now "fallen giants" and only the stockiest has a stem the thickness of a thin toothpick. The average height is probably 7cm/2.75".

In the pix, keep in mind the front middle and right 6 modules are peppers and so are 2 in the middle of the second row. The rest are my tomato babes.

The soil may look drier than it is, with soil coming back from the edges of the modules, as I have been moving the tray around a lot, turning it around in the germinator for even lighting and heating. The soil is still a bit moist to the touch, even on the surface.

I did not realize that heating tomato seedlings caused legginess! Oy! Big mistake to have planted them in the same flat as peppers, which as far as I know love all the heat you can give them. But boy do they ever grow slowly.

Do you think a bit of water and diluted fertilizer is in order? They're outside now.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0621.jpg (329.2 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0622.jpg (370.3 KB, 200 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0623.jpg (397.7 KB, 201 views)
dforrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #6
dforrest
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Basque Country of Spain (green, wet)
Posts: 8
Default And what to do with fallen giants?

And one additional question while I'm at it...

If you notice in the photos, in the two outside columns especially, there are now several seedlings that have gotten so tall, leggy and topheavy that they have lain down and are pretending to be groundcover
The two tomatillos that have "fallen" still just have their cotyledon leaves, and four or five others that are more developed but in the same situation.

What should I do?
dforrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #7
drew51
Tomatovillian™
 
drew51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b
Posts: 1,302
Default

I myself am clueless besides burying them. The worst case of weak growth I ever saw. They need light like yesterday, well a month ago. I have them under lights before they even come up.
drew51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #8
taboule
Tomatovillian™
 
taboule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 903
Default

Assuming you want to keep the very leggy ones (instead of terminating them) bring the lights very low and close to them and transplant at the next occasion -burying the stems. Make sure you dont over water once you transplant into a bigger pot and use a light mix to avoid drowning the plant or damp off.
taboule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #9
dforrest
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Basque Country of Spain (green, wet)
Posts: 8
Default

I think it was too much heat, probably. They have been under cheapo LED lights about 16h/day ever since they were born. But they were in the germinator with the peppers, which I was keeping quite warm.

Or maybe the light source was too far away? A couple of portable LED strip light fixtures taped to the top of the germinator (outside) -- maybe 6" above the surface of the tray to start, and now closer to the plants as they grow.

There is not much chance I can rig up better lighting soon -- no room in our flat, so it's either back in the germinator with the LEDs strapped on top and the heat off now, or out on the balcony (indirect sun) getting some cold treatment.
dforrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #10
dforrest
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Basque Country of Spain (green, wet)
Posts: 8
Default

No terminating, these are the chosen ones... I just need to learn what they need and cater to them better. (Actually they are varieties I wanted to experiment with from the catalog for this year and it just wouldn't be the same to give up and go to the nursery...)

I think I might just pot them up now and/or plant them out way early.

Two week forecast says nighttime lows under 10C/50F are unlikely before May 15th, our "official" local "plant em out" date. And daytime highs mostly 20-24°C/68-75°F. Bit of sun, bit of rain. My soil is very well drained (raised bed).

The advantage is that I can plant them really deep. It will be hard for me to scare up temporary pots that are deep enough without being ridiculously wide for these little dudes.

Is this a crazy plan?
dforrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #11
taboule
Tomatovillian™
 
taboule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MA
Posts: 903
Default

I wouldn't plant out yet, they're too little. Pot up now, use the below (toilet paper roll) cut in half, or simile, or get creative. All you need it for is ~3 weeks.
a87a8acc0f21d86acf31b5258e9fcb04.jpg
taboule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2016   #12
Cole_Robbie
Tomatovillian™
 
Cole_Robbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois, zone 6
Posts: 8,407
Default

If you just re-pot them, you can cram all that extra stem down into the new container and bury it.
Cole_Robbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2016   #13
loulac
Tomatovillian™
 
loulac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: France
Posts: 554
Default

Fighting legginess in seedlings can be tricky, finding a delicate balance between light, heat and water comes with experience. I suggest you have a look at Craig LeHoulier 'nctomatoman" here : http://www.craiglehoullier.com/resources/
The legginess has been carefully monitored to make transplanting fast and easy, I wouldn't advise anyone to go further...
loulac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4, 2016   #14
Starlight
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: AL
Posts: 1,993
Default

Boy that is some legginess. Usually you get that kind of legginess from not enough light. When your seedlings sprout, keep your lights just maybe like a half to 3/4" in above them. The lights won't burn them. Then as they reach the lights, just raise up tiny bit at a time.

If you don't have enough containers to plant individually down deep, you might get a plastic tub, one that maybe 4 " deep. We call them under the bed plastic bins. Cut a bunch of holes in bottom and sides for drainage, fill with some soil, then plant you seedlings long ways leaving just a little bit of the tops showing and cover with more soil. You want just little foliage showing and put out in some sun.

I wouldn't plant them long ways deep either. That might hold them til you can get outside. Only thing I don't know and more experienced growers might know if with them being that little and if stem buried will they produce new little feeder hairy roots.





There some Tv folks here that know how to tell you do it real well.
Starlight is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fertilizer , legginess , seedlings , watering

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2022 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★