False Economy!

JackE · March 15, 2011

We have been using Miracle-Gro potting mix as a starter medium for years. It's full of little sticks, that have to be picked out one by one, and it's the most expensive mix in Wally World's parking lot - 12 bucks + for 2 cu.ft. We had two bags left over from last year, which covered our early planting - as usual, perfect plants.

When we ran out, one of our church ladies who works in the garden shop at Wal-Mart, insisted that we save money by buying "Expert Gardener" potting mix, which she said was the same thing as regular MG mix and only $8.46 for 2 cu.ft. I was reluctant, but went with it under pressure from my wife.

You guessed it! It wasn't sterile and everything we started with it is damping-off and there's a white fungus growing everywhere, even on the outside of The trays! We got the first planting of 1500 toms in the ground with Miracle-Gro, but now I have to really hustle - clean everything with Clorox and replant. False Economy! I can get usable transplants in 4 weeks if I'm lucky, in time for the 2nd and third plantings, but only with double labor and wasted money. Grrrrrr!!

Jack

Wargamer777 · March 15, 2011

I have used the Expert Mix before when transplanting up and never had any problems. As a matter of fact, the plants did really well.

I would never use MG or Expert potting mix for starting seeds though. I use a seed starting mix from Sun-Gro that I purchased at my local Piedmont Farm and Garden.

b54red · March 15, 2011

I also use a sterile seed starting mix. I will not use Miracle Grow for seed starting of tomatoes any longer because I had too much damping off and the mix was just too inconsistent in quality. I do use the cheaper mixes for starting squash, cucumbers, and etc. For potting up I use any good potting mix.

beefyboy · March 15, 2011

I use the largest of the Jiffy 7's to start mine and for what my application is, it works the best. All mine except for a few, go into earthboxes.

ireilly · March 15, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackE

We have been using Miracle-Gro potting mix as a starter medium for years. It's full of little sticks, that have to be picked out one by one, and it's the most expensive mix in Wally World's parking lot - 12 bucks + for 2 cu.ft. We had two bags left over from last year, which covered our early planting - as usual, perfect plants.

When we ran out, one of our church ladies who works in the garden shop at Wal-Mart, insisted that we save money by buying "Expert Gardener" potting mix, which she said was the same thing as regular MG mix and only $8.46 for 2 cu.ft. I was reluctant, but went with it under pressure from my wife.

You guessed it! It wasn't sterile and everything we started with it is damping-off and there's a white fungus growing everywhere, even on the outside of The trays! We got the first planting of 1500 toms in the ground with Miracle-Gro, but now I have to really hustle - clean everything with Clorox and replant. False Economy! I can get usable transplants in 4 weeks if I'm lucky, in time for the 2nd and third plantings, but only with double labor and wasted money. Grrrrrr!!

Jack

Maybe try b54red's Clorox treatment on them? Could be less work.

JackE · March 16, 2011

"b54red's" ---What's that?

My wife doesn't agree, but it's been my experience that the most expensive product is nearly always the best. You get what you pay for. That Expert Gardener product probably has poor quality control - some batches are clean and others are infected.

Jack

OneoftheEarls · March 16, 2011

I have started well over 600 tomato varieties using Expert brand potting soil....and will grow another 300+ this year.

**Mischka** · March 16, 2011

If you use anything other than a sterile, soilless starting medium, (say that three times fast

) you are asking for trouble.

dice · March 16, 2011

Wetting seed-starting mixes initially with around .3% hydrogen
peroxide (drugstore peroxide diluted 10 to 1 with water) helps
avoid damping off and other soil diseases that might be in
the seed-starting media, as does wetting them initially with
boiling water.

I bet a minute in a microwave before filling cells or plug tray
inserts would do a number on disease spores, too.

dustdevil · March 16, 2011

I've used Miracle Grow Potting Mix to start seeds with no problem. Getting the water regiment right is the tricky part for most mixes.

JackE · March 16, 2011

Hi there, Earl. Haven't heard from you for awhile. Did you mean to say 600 VARIETIES, Earl, or 600 plants? I cannot even keep 2 or 3 varieties separated without getting them mixed up. :-)

Jack

JackE · March 17, 2011

Dice -- I want to thank you for that info. Useful tip - and something I have right in the medicine cabinet. I've never had any trouble with the MG mix, but I'm going to adopt that practice in the future, starting now. Dumped all the infected stuff, sprayed every thing with bleach and replanted with MG. Set us back two weeks - we'll miss our 4/15 planting, but our 4/1 plants are okay. We plant every two weeks right through May - that staggers the harvest. In theory at least,, when one planting is done making we can flow "seamlessly" (I wish!) into the next one.

Jack

JackE · March 18, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustdevil

I've used Miracle Grow Potting Mix to start seeds with no problem. Getting the water regiment right is the tricky part for most mixes.

I have to resist the tendency to overwater, especially with the little peat pots. They dry out very quickly and do best if they're sitting in a tray with no drain holes, allowing a LITTLE BIT of water to stand in the bottom. Under ideal conditions, the plant gets just the right amount of water through osmosis. If too much water bulds-up in the tray, though, you're dead meat!

I used to use the APS (automatic propagation system) 40 cell seed starters -http://www.gardeners.com/APS/APS_Cat,default,sc.html, which also waters by osmosis, but automatically with no errors - perfect amount of moisture all the time!. This is the best system I found in 50 years of gardening - delivers just the right amount of moisture automatically with a water reservoir and a capillary mat. Always optimum moisture as long as there's water in the reservoir, and works with any kind of starter mix.

I still have 15 of those units from my home gardening days and would love to use them now - I miss them big time!. Problem is, they're just not applicable when you need to start plants by the thousands - and there's no efficient way to accelerate germination with bottom heat. The soil temp will always equal the ambient temp, which means using them inside the house, and that's not a viable situation for me anymore - too dirty! I have to work in a cool greenhouse now and use bottom heating mats.

But for many of y'all, with your heirlooms and many varieties, the APS system would be perfect - as long as you have a large light tray in a heated room. Buy one and try it - you'll love it! Five of them will fit on a 48" light tray shelf. You can drape plastic over the tray and the heat from the flourescent tubes will bring it up to 80 - tomatoes will germinate in a 72 degree room, but it takes longer (4 days at 85)

They used to be 5 bucks a unit - last ones I bought about five years ago were $15 each, but they last for years and years. I have some that are probably 20 years old and still good.

I have no financial interest in that company.

Jack

JackE · March 18, 2011

This might interest some folks here. I participate, to a limited extent, on a forum for REAL farmers - you know, guys who plant 1000 acres of tomatoes! They used to direct seed those processing tomatoes, but now, largely because of the cost of these new hybrid 'miracle" seeds, almost all tomatoes are transplanted. They tow huge machines behind with guys sitting on seats operating the transplant mechanism (and that's the extent of my knowledge).

But what's interesting is the fact that these transplants are all bare root - started hydroponically by specialized nurseries that serve these farmers, and transported/planted BARE Root! As a life-long seed-starter, this intrigues me. I don't want to embarrass myself, or show my ignorance, by asking how that is done on the professional forum -- but, I'm asking y'all how in the world they do that without killing the plants?

Jack

ireilly · March 18, 2011

That is interesting stuff. Got to wonder about the logistics of gathering and transporting all of those stems.

I found this on the web but it is 23 years old. Interestingly, it mentions media block (tray-plants) plants as being superior to bare-root in terms of survival and in cost. Worst of all was seedlings.

I'm sure this might mean more to you being a grower than to me.

http://dspace.lib.uoguelph.ca/xmlui/...pdf?sequence=1

March 15, 2011	#1
JackE Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Woodville, Texas Posts: 520	False Economy! We have been using Miracle-Gro potting mix as a starter medium for years. It's full of little sticks, that have to be picked out one by one, and it's the most expensive mix in Wally World's parking lot - 12 bucks + for 2 cu.ft. We had two bags left over from last year, which covered our early planting - as usual, perfect plants. When we ran out, one of our church ladies who works in the garden shop at Wal-Mart, insisted that we save money by buying "Expert Gardener" potting mix, which she said was the same thing as regular MG mix and only $8.46 for 2 cu.ft. I was reluctant, but went with it under pressure from my wife. You guessed it! It wasn't sterile and everything we started with it is damping-off and there's a white fungus growing everywhere, even on the outside of The trays! We got the first planting of 1500 toms in the ground with Miracle-Gro, but now I have to really hustle - clean everything with Clorox and replant. False Economy! I can get usable transplants in 4 weeks if I'm lucky, in time for the 2nd and third plantings, but only with double labor and wasted money. Grrrrrr!! Jack

March 16, 2011	#8
Mischka Tomatoville® Administrator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Bay State Posts: 3,207	If you use anything other than a sterile, soilless starting medium, (say that three times fast ) you are asking for trouble. __________________ Mischka One last word of farewell, Dear Master and Mistress. Whenever you visit my grave, say to yourselves with regret but also with happiness in your hearts at the remembrance of my long happy life with you: "Here lies one who loved us and whom we loved." No matter how deep my sleep I shall hear you, and not all the power of death can keep my spirit from wagging a grateful tail.

March 16, 2011	#9
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Wetting seed-starting mixes initially with around .3% hydrogen peroxide (drugstore peroxide diluted 10 to 1 with water) helps avoid damping off and other soil diseases that might be in the seed-starting media, as does wetting them initially with boiling water. I bet a minute in a microwave before filling cells or plug tray inserts would do a number on disease spores, too. __________________ -- alias

March 15, 2011	#2
Wargamer777 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boiling Springs, SC Posts: 60	I have used the Expert Mix before when transplanting up and never had any problems. As a matter of fact, the plants did really well. I would never use MG or Expert potting mix for starting seeds though. I use a seed starting mix from Sun-Gro that I purchased at my local Piedmont Farm and Garden.

March 15, 2011	#3
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I also use a sterile seed starting mix. I will not use Miracle Grow for seed starting of tomatoes any longer because I had too much damping off and the mix was just too inconsistent in quality. I do use the cheaper mixes for starting squash, cucumbers, and etc. For potting up I use any good potting mix.

March 15, 2011	#4
beefyboy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Pt. Charlotte fl Posts: 329	I use the largest of the Jiffy 7's to start mine and for what my application is, it works the best. All mine except for a few, go into earthboxes.

March 16, 2011	#7
OneoftheEarls Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Up North Posts: 660	I have started well over 600 tomato varieties using Expert brand potting soil....and will grow another 300+ this year.

March 16, 2011	#10
dustdevil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: WI, USA Zone4 Posts: 1,887	I've used Miracle Grow Potting Mix to start seeds with no problem. Getting the water regiment right is the tricky part for most mixes.

March 17, 2011	#12
JackE Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Woodville, Texas Posts: 520	Dice -- I want to thank you for that info. Useful tip - and something I have right in the medicine cabinet. I've never had any trouble with the MG mix, but I'm going to adopt that practice in the future, starting now. Dumped all the infected stuff, sprayed every thing with bleach and replanted with MG. Set us back two weeks - we'll miss our 4/15 planting, but our 4/1 plants are okay. We plant every two weeks right through May - that staggers the harvest. In theory at least,, when one planting is done making we can flow "seamlessly" (I wish!) into the next one. Jack

March 18, 2011	#14
JackE Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Woodville, Texas Posts: 520	This might interest some folks here. I participate, to a limited extent, on a forum for REAL farmers - you know, guys who plant 1000 acres of tomatoes! They used to direct seed those processing tomatoes, but now, largely because of the cost of these new hybrid 'miracle" seeds, almost all tomatoes are transplanted. They tow huge machines behind with guys sitting on seats operating the transplant mechanism (and that's the extent of my knowledge). But what's interesting is the fact that these transplants are all bare root - started hydroponically by specialized nurseries that serve these farmers, and transported/planted BARE Root! As a life-long seed-starter, this intrigues me. I don't want to embarrass myself, or show my ignorance, by asking how that is done on the professional forum -- but, I'm asking y'all how in the world they do that without killing the plants? Jack

March 18, 2011	#15
ireilly Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dallas Posts: 344	That is interesting stuff. Got to wonder about the logistics of gathering and transporting all of those stems. I found this on the web but it is 23 years old. Interestingly, it mentions media block (tray-plants) plants as being superior to bare-root in terms of survival and in cost. Worst of all was seedlings. I'm sure this might mean more to you being a grower than to me. http://dspace.lib.uoguelph.ca/xmlui/...pdf?sequence=1