Excel LG question

[creister]

Can excel lg be applied as a soil drench?

[Salsacharley]

Page 2 says yes....
http://www.planetnatural.com/wp-cont...l-lg-label.pdf

[Worth1]

Wow I thought you were asking about a new Microsoft program.

Worth

[RayR]

One thing I found out about using phosphite fungicides like Excel LG (Plant Doctor) is there is a potential issue that can occur if applied to the soil which would reduce its effectiveness. Root cells have specialized transporters to bring phosphate into the plant. The phosphite ions are also absorbed by the same transport mechanism, so there is competition between the two. Phosphate will usually win the competition if the availability of phosphate in the soil is high.
So applying phosphite fungicides as a foliar is actually considered more effective because the competition with phosphate is nil with leaf cells. Also the phosphite ion is translocated in the plant through both the Xylem and the Phloem so phosphite ions entering the plant through the leaf cells will be translocated all through the plant including the roots which is important if you have a root pathogen like Pythium.

[Fusion_power]

Wow I thought you were asking about a new Microsoft program.

And I came here to find out if Worth is an Excel whiz. Maybe he could teach a bit about using macros.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by RayR

One thing I found out about using phosphite fungicides like Excel LG (Plant Doctor) is there is a potential issue that can occur if applied to the soil which would reduce its effectiveness. Root cells have specialized transporters to bring phosphate into the plant. The phosphite ions are also absorbed by the same transport mechanism, so there is competition between the two. Phosphate will usually win the competition if the availability of phosphate in the soil is high.
So applying phosphite fungicides as a foliar is actually considered more effective because the competition with phosphate is nil with leaf cells. Also the phosphite ion is translocated in the plant through both the Xylem and the Phloem so phosphite ions entering the plant through the leaf cells will be translocated all through the plant including the roots which is important if you have a root pathogen like Pythium.

Pulling this up as I want to start using excel LG. Can I mix it with things such as kelp, fish emulsion, soap,neem, or BT?
If not, how long do I need to wait before applying BT or other sprays? My p,ants are getting eaten up by worms this week but are also showing some signs of early blight and gray mold. This heat wave is really stressing them out.
Also, would it be better to use Serenade or Daconil at this point? I have all three but have no experience using any fungal sprays, having moved here from the desert.

[JamesL]

Tracy,
The only thing I mix exel LG with is Actinovate and molasses. For a spray not a drench.
I haven't used Serenade yet this year, but one of my typical spray rotations is to alternate weekly Actinovate and Serenade.
I have been doing well this year with Fish Milk spray as preventative.

Gray mold - you need to get an eradicator on that right quick. Consider Bill's Bleach Spray followed up 24 hours later with a spray for the bugs and then another 24 hours later Serenade to get a coating on the plants.

You could also spray for bugs and then a copper in lieu of the bleach but that will also act as a coating so that would be all.

[Tracydr]

Thanks James. I'll give that a try!

[RayR]

If you are trying to control Early Blight and Gray Mold with a Phosphourous Acid fungicide (Excel LG (now renamed Plant Doctor) or any other brand) you are wasting your time. It is ineffective against any true fungus, it is only effective against oomycetes pathogens.

Control of Oomycetes
It is well documented that phosphorous acid is able to control diseases caused by organisms that belong to the Oomycota (or oomycetes) that are on agronomical crops. Oomycetes (a group of pathogens that include water molds and downy mildew) are actually not fungi but are frequently grouped with fungi, because they form structures (filaments) similar to the ones that fungi make. In reality, oomycetes are fungal-like organisms that differ from fungi in that their cell walls do not contain chitin but a mixture of cellulosic compounds and glycan. Another difference is the nuclei in the cells that form the filaments; each have two sets of genetic information in oomycetes (diploid) instead of just one set as in fungi (haploid).
For most practical purposes, the oomycetes are grouped with fungi. Compounds that control plant pathogens belonging to the oomycetes are often called fungicides. It is important to distinguish between fungi and oomycetes; chemicals that are used to control one will often not be effective against the other, depending on their different biology. Several important plant pathogens belong to the oomycetes; the one with the most economic impact is Phytophthora infestans, which causes late blight of potato.
Phosphorous acid has both a direct and an indirect effect on oomycetes. It inhibits a particular process (oxidative phosphorylation) in the metabolism of oomycetes. For instance, phosphonate compounds are ineffective against phosphonate-resistant oomycetes. In addition, some evidence suggests that phosphorous acid has an indirect effect by stimulating the plant’s natural defense response against pathogen attack.

Read full article here

[pauldavid]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Wow I thought you were asking about a new Microsoft program.

Worth

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

And I came here to find out if Worth is an Excel whiz. Maybe he could teach a bit about using macros.

Too funny!
The thread title raised my eyebrows, I was thinking about computers too!

[amideutch]

Here is some more informarion I posted previously on EXEL LG (Phosphorous Acid).

Phosphorous Acid Fungicides Explained
by John Hartman and Kenny Seebold,
Extension Plant Pathologists
Kentucky fruit and vegetable growers may
have noticed that phosphorous acid has been listed for
management of several fruit diseases in recent
editions of the commercial tree fruit and small fruit
spray guides and management of several vegetable
diseases on recent product labels. Some County
Extension Agents and growers have been curious to
know how they work. Parts of the following material
was adapted from an insightful article written by
Annemiek Schilder, Michigan State University Plant
Pathologist, and was published in the Michigan State
University Fruit Crop Advisory Team Alert, Vol. 20,
No. 5, May 10, 2005.
Phosphorous acid fungicides
Recently, a number of new fungicides that
have phosphorous acid as the active ingredient have
come on the market. Other names sometimes used
for this group are phosphonates or phosphites.
Commercial products in this group may include
ProPhyt®, Phostrol® and Agri-Fos®. Aliette®
(fosetyl-Al), an older fungicide, is the prototype for
this group of fungicides. However, the long-standing
patent on Aliette® had prevented similar fungicides
from being developed until recently. In Australia,
where the patent did not apply, growers have been
using the phosphorous acid fungicides for over a
decade.
Phosphorous acid is not fertilizer. The term
“phosphorous acid” should not be confused with
phosphoric acid or phosphorus (P), a fertilizer
component. In fertilizers, P is normally found in the
form of phosphoric acid (H3PO4), which readily
disassociates to release hydrogen phosphate (HPO4-2)
and dihydrogen phosphate (H2PO4
- ). Both of these
ions may be taken up by the plant and are mobile once
inside the plant. Phosphorous acid is H3PO3. A single
letter difference in the name of a chemical compound
can make a major difference in its properties.
Phosphorous acid releases the phosphonate
ion (HPO3
2; also called phosphite) upon
disassociation. Phosphonate is easily taken up and
translocated inside the plant. Phosphorous acid does
not get converted into phosphate, which is the primary
source of P for plants. Because phosphorous acid
and its derivatives do not get metabolized in plants,
they are fairly stable and probably contribute little or
nothing to P nutritional needs of the plants.
Some researchers have investigated the
ability of phosphorous acid to act as a nutrient source
for plant growth and found that P deficiency
symptoms developed with phosphorous acid as the
sole source of P. This means that although
phosphorous acid can control diseases, it is not a
substitute for P fertilization. The inverse is also true:
phosphate is an excellent source of P for plant
growth, but is unable to control diseases other than
improving the general health of the crop. So applying
high amounts of P fertilizer will not work as a
disease control measure.
Diseases managed with phosphorous acid.
Researchers have found that phosphorous acid
fungicides are especially effective against Oomycete
pathogens, such as Phytophthora, Pythium, and
downy mildews in a number of crops. Our fruit
spray guides list Phytophthora collar rot and root rot
of tree fruits, blueberries, and brambles; strawberry
red stele and leather rot; and grape downy mildew as
targets for phosphorous acid fungicides.
Phosphorous acid is labeled for use on brassicas
(broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower); cucurbits; edible
legumes; Solanaceous crops (eggplant, pepper,
potato, tomato, and tobacco); onions; and a number
of leafy vegetables for management of diseases
caused by Phytophthora, Pythium, Rhizoctonia, and
Fusarium spp. Downy mildews of these crops are
also listed on product labels. Materials containing
phosphorous acid, in general, have performed best
against Phytophthora blight and downy mildews.
Preventive applications were more effective in
reducing season-long severity of disease than those
applied after disease onset.
Phosphorous acid has a direct and possibly
an indirect effect on these pathogens. It inhibits a
particular metabolic process (oxidative
phosphorylation). In addition, some evidence
suggests that phosphorous acid has an indirect effect
by stimulating the plants natural defense response
against pathogen attack. This probably explains the
much broader spectrum of activity observed in many
fungicide efficacy trials. In fruit crops, it has been
found, for instance, that ProPhyt had efficacy against
downy mildew, Phomopsis cane and leaf spot, and
black rot (but not much against powdery mildew) in
grapes. There is also evidence of activity of these
compounds against anthracnose in blueberries.
The phosphonate ion is highly systemic and
fairly stable in plants. The systemic activity allows
them to be applied as foliar fungicides for prevention
of Phytophthora and Pythium root rots. They may
also display some curative activity. In general,
applications every 14 days seem to be effective in
grapes, but follow label directions. These fungicides
are sold as solutions of potassium and/or sodium
salts of phosphorous acid. To compare them, one
should look at the phosphorous acid equivalent,
which should be listed on the label.
Fungicide precautions. Phosphorous acid
fungicide prices range from about $25 to $35 per
gallon, and the application rate ranges from 2 to 5 pt/
acre ($6.25 to $22 per acre, depending on the
product and rate). Under high disease pressure,
higher rates may need to be used and spray intervals
tightened. These fungicides are formulated in salt
form, so care must be taken not to exceed a certain
concentration, as crop injury may result. In addition,
if the concentration is too high, the pH may become
so low that in tank mixes with copper products
(particularly copper hydroxide such as Kocide), too
much copper will become available and result in crop
injury.
Pawpaw Tasting Highlights
Kentucky State/Pawpaw Foundation
Workshop
by Kirk W. Pomper, K.S.U., USDA Pawpaw
Germplasm Repository, Frankfort, KY
The Kentucky

[Tracydr]

So, why would it be listed on the excel website for gray mold? Although, I don't think I saw early blight on there. I was also going to use either Serenade or the bleach spray if I don't see any improvement.
Not even sure if I've properly diagnosed the early blight but I'm pretty sure about the gray mold.
I'll hit everything today with BT,kelp, can I also use Serenade with that mixture? Then, maybe do the Excel in a few days.
Anybody have any actual experience, good or bad with Excel? I can always use it on my strawberries,blueberries and squash, if it's not good for tomatoes or not worth using on them. I was going to spray the strawberries today anyway,because I noticed a white, fuzzy looking mold on one leaf a couple days ago.
It rained pretty good last night and we really needed the rain ( especially since I don't have water to my garden yet). But, because we had rain yesterday and Friday, I held off doing any spray until this morning. Soon as I drink my coffee I'm going out to start spraying with something.
Btw, the only plants really effected by the "early blight" or whatever it is, seems to be the Iditarod Red and Yukon Quest plants. Oh, and Matt's Wild Cherry, of all plants.
Everything else looks pretty good although lots of leaf curl from our 15 day heat wave with very little water.
I guess we're supposed to go right back up into the 90s this week, after a couple of days relief. It's been so humid,too!

[Tracydr]

Thanks Ami and Ray.
I managed to find that article that Ami posted yesterday.
Okay, so if I use the Excel on anything,is it okay to mix with kelp or BT? I see that it can be mixed with copper but not with a spreader/sticker. Is kelp considered a spreader sticker?
I do need to get Bt and kelp on the plants as the worms are eating them up and are causing far more problems with my plants than disease right now. I must have had a huge hatch of tomato worms this week.
I'm sure next year will be better. I have all these wild "eggplant" type weeds, even up close to my garden. I know they are a nightshade of some sort. We only just now got a mower. I should have them under control and gone by next year,I hope, with mowing and pasture management.

[amideutch]

Tracy, Do the BT and Kelp applications now. Follow up with your EXEL LG later. I have used CoCo
Wet as a spreader sticker with my applications of EXEL and Actinovate with no problems. Molasses also will work as previously mentioned.

Ami

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

So, why would it be listed on the excel website for gray mold? Although, I don't think I saw early blight on there. I was also going to use either Serenade or the bleach spray if I don't see any improvement.
Not even sure if I've properly diagnosed the early blight but I'm pretty sure about the gray mold.
I'll hit everything today with BT,kelp, can I also use Serenade with that mixture? Then, maybe do the Excel in a few days.
Anybody have any actual experience, good or bad with Excel? I can always use it on my strawberries,blueberries and squash, if it's not good for tomatoes or not worth using on them. I was going to spray the strawberries today anyway,because I noticed a white, fuzzy looking mold on one leaf a couple days ago.
It rained pretty good last night and we really needed the rain ( especially since I don't have water to my garden yet). But, because we had rain yesterday and Friday, I held off doing any spray until this morning. Soon as I drink my coffee I'm going out to start spraying with something.
Btw, the only plants really effected by the "early blight" or whatever it is, seems to be the Iditarod Red and Yukon Quest plants. Oh, and Matt's Wild Cherry, of all plants.
Everything else looks pretty good although lots of leaf curl from our 15 day heat wave with very little water.
I guess we're supposed to go right back up into the 90s this week, after a couple of days relief. It's been so humid,too!

fic

I didn't see gray mold listed on the label as a disease that Organocide Plant Doctor (Excel LG) claims to control. There are some fungi and bacterial pathogens listed for specific plants that it has shown positive control but most pathogens associated with vegetable crops that are listed are all oomycetes pathogens. (Phytophthora's, Pythium, Downy mildew)
It may not hurt to try a Phosphorous Acid Fungicide on a disease problem, just don't spray it to heavily and follow the direction for the specific crop as far as dilution rate and frequency of application.

Early Blight is fairly easy to recognize, just look for the concentric circle pattern in the lesion.
Post some closeup pictures if you are not sure. Early Blight (Alternaria solani) is a true fungus, Phosphorous Acid is not an effective control there.