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Old March 11, 2022   #46
rhoder551
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There is more than one "Serrano" chile. I grow Serrano Tampequino, for which seeds are available at multiple sources, as are seeds for open-pollinated "generic" Serrano chile. So I do not know why you have not been able to find OP seed. Looking at a couple of on-line shops, I see that seed is readily available as of tonight.

As for "one of the big seed companies ... trying to patent serrano peppers", that could happen only if a NEW variety had been developed, that was distinct from existing varieties. NO-ONE can get a patent on an heirloom plant that has been around for decades if not centuries, at least not in the US. But if someone put the effort into successfully developing a new variety, then good for them, and if they wanted to patent it, so be it. We all have options, and no-one is forced to buy a patented variety.



I should have written that I cannot find seeds offered on the websites where I prefer to purchase seeds. Thanks
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Old March 11, 2022   #47
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There is more than one "Serrano" chile. I grow Serrano Tampequino, for which seeds are available at multiple sources, as are seeds for open-pollinated "generic" Serrano chile. So I do not know why you have not been able to find OP seed. Looking at a couple of on-line shops, I see that seed is readily available as of tonight.

As for "one of the big seed companies ... trying to patent serrano peppers", that could happen only if a NEW variety had been developed, that was distinct from existing varieties. NO-ONE can get a patent on an heirloom plant that has been around for decades if not centuries, at least not in the US. But if someone put the effort into successfully developing a new variety, then good for them, and if they wanted to patent it, so be it. We all have options, and no-one is forced to buy a patented variety.



I should have written that I cannot find seeds offered on the websites where I prefer to purchase seeds. Thanks
Well, I was not buying Serrano seeds this year as I have fairly recent seed for 3 varieties (Tampiqueno, Huasteco, Sinahuisa) plus a generic Burpee's OP "Serrano". But a quick look shows that OP Serrano seeds are available from companies including Victory, Southern Exposure, Kitazawa, Baker Creek, and Burpee's (which also offers plants). Totally Tomatoes offers 3 OP varieties, and I am sure if you check a chile speciality shop you will find more.
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Old March 11, 2022   #48
MrsJustice
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Originally Posted by DK2021 View Post
Well, I was not buying Serrano seeds this year as I have fairly recent seed for 3 varieties (Tampiqueno, Huasteco, Sinahuisa) plus a generic Burpee's OP "Serrano". But a quick look shows that OP Serrano seeds are available from companies including Victory, Southern Exposure, Kitazawa, Baker Creek, and Burpee's (which also offers plants). Totally Tomatoes offers 3 OP varieties, and I am sure if you check a chile specialty shop you will find more.
Well, I Patent my own Farm/Company to cover the 27 years of Research on Saving the Food History on the Contraband Slaves of Fort Monroe given to my Great Grandfather and his People who Farmed on Shepard Mallory Farmland. To Protect the Farming Secrets given to them by Native Americans. Along with the Farming and Military History of my Family who Joined the United States Army at Fort Monroe during the Civil War. That Continued at Fort Bragg North Carolina with my Great Grandfather's legacy of Receiving Deep Conservertive LOVE from Major General Benjamin Butler and North Carolina after studying Federal Law. I was successful, along with protecting the Future Books I will write One day. It's clear to me while studying Federal Law " No Citizen or Companies can Patent any Historical Heirloom Fruits or Vegetables. Even, if Companies improve a well know Hybyer Tomato like Campbells before completely modifying the Tomatoes. They can Patent secrets and their operations and Farming Solutions and Recipes by passing all guidelines under USD and Federal Laws in the United States.

scientific operations and administrative resources as only I found Hypers Tomatoes Patent by using Amish Verities, that I personally found unfair, as compensation should have been given to Amish people.

But I suffer from Dyslexia and I see the World, People, and Our Laws Different without Rose Covered Glasses. I can clearly see the true Victim and I see all Tomatoes Hybrids Patents clearly seeing the Amish people Tomatoes and not being compensated. As their Heirloom Variety Like their Past tomatoes were largely used without compensation nor Notification of patents. But granted as a genetically modified tomato that is for human Compumtion and Long district travel to markets with a long Shelve Life.


I pray I can finally Write my Book one day, Amen!!!!
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Last edited by MrsJustice; March 11, 2022 at 08:52 PM.
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Old March 13, 2022   #49
bower
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I would like to know more about the patents that have been applied to tomatoes. For example, if there are cases where breeding rights are restricted by patents. (meaning the right to breed new varieties from previously patented OPs).

I realize with Crispr and other gene editing technology, there will likely be patented tomatoes in the future, where the patent also restricts saving of seeds or the use of the plant in breeding. But I would like to know if any patents of this type already existed on conventionally bred OP's or even F1's, that specifically placed a constraint on the use of the plant for breeding.



I acknowledge that breeders legitimately use patents to obtain some reward for their efforts, whether the product is an OP or F1. Patents on distribution rights to an OP which a company created, seems legitimate.
But IDK if any existing patents also are intended to prevent the use of one plant as a parent for a new OP tomato.
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Old March 13, 2022   #50
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I would like to know more about the patents that have been applied to tomatoes. For example, if there are cases where breeding rights are restricted by patents. (meaning the right to breed new varieties from previously patented OPs).

I realize with Crispr and other gene editing technology, there will likely be patented tomatoes in the future, where the patent also restricts saving of seeds or the use of the plant in breeding. But I would like to know if any patents of this type already existed on conventionally bred OP's or even F1's, that specifically placed a constraint on the use of the plant for breeding.



I acknowledge that breeders legitimately use patents to obtain some reward for their efforts, whether the product is an OP or F1. Patents on distribution rights to an OP which a company created, seems legitimate.
But IDK if any existing patents also are intended to prevent the use of one plant as a parent for a new OP tomato.
This is not really my area of specialty but on the question of what is protected by a patent, look at the claims--it is ONLY what is spelled out in the granted claims that is protected, even if the rest of the patent document discloses other information. One caveat is that patents may occur in "families", so to get a picture of everything that is protected, you'd have to check to see if there are other patents related to the one you've identified, and look at all the granted claims, and maybe pending claims if there are related patents not yet granted. (All of this information is open to the public, by the way.)



If you look at some of the current patents on newly developed inbred lines, the claims seem to usually include a claim to offspring of the parent. So this would protect at least the immediate progeny (first generation, whether OP or a hybrid F1), and thus would prevent use of the patented inbred in a breeding programme for the term of the patent, i.e., usually 20 years.
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Old March 13, 2022   #51
bower
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Thank you DK2021. I was not aware that recent OP's are protected in that way.
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Old March 14, 2022   #52
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Thank you DK2021. I was not aware that recent OP's are protected in that way.
I generally don't begrudge a patent holder her/his/their rights, assuming they in fact put the time and effort into inventing something new. Patents have limited terms (20 years), after all, whereas trade secrets last for as long as the secret is protected.



The theory behind patent rights is that the patent, once granted, gives the inventor the reward of a temporary monopoly. In return, the patent is published (and nowadays is usually published much earlier, as a pending patent application) and therefore adds to public knowledge. Quid pro quo--one cannot have a patent and also keep the invention secret. I often counsel clients that a patent should not necessarily be seen as a roadblock, but as an invitation to improve upon, or invent around, what is disclosed in the patent.
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Old March 15, 2022   #53
bower
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Yes DK2021, I have sometimes brought up patents in searches for information about natural dyes, for example, which contained lots of useful information - at least for a home process not a commercial rival. It is an interesting place to look for inventions that are 'made public'.


On the subject of plant patents though, I did a search this morning and learned that in Canada you do not have the right to restrict the use of the plant in breeding. The patents are only applicable to obtain royalties from the sale of seeds or propagating material for up to 20 years, subject to an annual renewal fee.
It is also stated that as mentioned earlier in this thread, the patent applies only within Canada.





https://inspection.canada.ca/plant-v.../1335969867075

Exceptions to plant breeders' rights

Plant breeders' rights do not restrict anyone from using the protected variety for
  • private and non-commercial purposes,
  • experimental purposes,
  • breeding and developing new plant varieties, and
  • storing and saving seed harvested from a protected variety for planting by farmers on their own land.
So, if there are patents that restrict the use of a plant to breed a new one in the USA, it is different from the law in Canada.
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Old March 15, 2022   #54
MrsJustice
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By me studying Trademarks and Patents, I was surprised and happy at the same time. I was happy that Cambells' shared their tomatoes with the Public as my Grandmother grew them telling me as a child my Great Grandfather grew tomatoes as tall as her House. As a child, I did not realize your food was being Hybrinited and she was describing Heirloom Tomatoes he grew in front of Fort Monroe. The only thing I did not like or understand in the Patent Seeds was that Amish verities were used to create the hybrid. Trying to seed by weeks of reading if Native Americans and Amish people were compensated. I decided to go with a Trdemake as I wanted the Farm and its history of Shepard Mallory Safe and Protected. To me, that was all the Patenting type I needed.

I guess Pro'se like me, look at the Laws with Open Eyes for Protection of the American People as a whole-body, especially from a historical point of view, Amen!!.

Farmer, Joyce Beggs
of Angel Field Heirloom Tomatoes.
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Last edited by MrsJustice; March 15, 2022 at 01:17 PM.
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Old March 15, 2022   #55
DK2021
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Originally Posted by bower View Post
Yes DK2021, I have sometimes brought up patents in searches for information about natural dyes, for example, which contained lots of useful information - at least for a home process not a commercial rival. It is an interesting place to look for inventions that are 'made public'.


On the subject of plant patents though, I did a search this morning and learned that in Canada you do not have the right to restrict the use of the plant in breeding. The patents are only applicable to obtain royalties from the sale of seeds or propagating material for up to 20 years, subject to an annual renewal fee.
It is also stated that as mentioned earlier in this thread, the patent applies only within Canada.





https://inspection.canada.ca/plant-v.../1335969867075

Exceptions to plant breeders' rights

Plant breeders' rights do not restrict anyone from using the protected variety for
  • private and non-commercial purposes,
  • experimental purposes,
  • breeding and developing new plant varieties, and
  • storing and saving seed harvested from a protected variety for planting by farmers on their own land.
So, if there are patents that restrict the use of a plant to breed a new one in the USA, it is different from the law in Canada.
There are different types of IP protection.

In the US you can get IP protection for plants in three ways:
1. utility patent (the type I mostly deal with), 20-y term, IP rights depend on what is recited in the claims (can have many claims); can include protection of both an OP/inbred parent and its progeny (assuming these are recited in a claim); administered by the USPTO; receives a US Patent Number when granted.

2. plant patent - also 20-y term; protection limited to a single claim that describes the new plant variety; limited to cloned (vegetatively or asexually reproduced, e.g., by budwood, rhizomes, rooted cuttings) plants (with the exception of tubers that are also food, like potatoes, and wild-collected plants); hybrids that can be obtained only by sexual reproduction cannot get a plant patent, but they can be protected with a utility patent; administered by the USPTO; abbreviated "PP" (Plant Patent) or "PPAP" (Plant Patent Applied For)
https://www.uspto.gov/patents/basics...out-35-usc-161

3. plant variety protection (PVP) - 20-y term (25-y term for trees and vines); used for seed propagated (sexual reproduction) varieties and potatoes and other edible tubers; administered by the USDA's PVP Office; PVP Certificate issued, not a patent.
https://www.ams.usda.gov/services/pl...ety-protection

Plant Breeders Rights (PBRs) are equivalent in the US to PVP protection, and there is a breeders' exemption to allow use of a PVP plant as breeding stock in the development of a different variety and/or for research purposes.
Be aware that one can have both a patent and a PVP on the same plant variety.
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Old March 15, 2022   #56
DK2021
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An addendum, as I only just realised that you are in Canada: In Canada you cannot patent a plant per se, but you can get claims to a plant cell, and those claims (if granted) may in some cases be about equivalent to a patent on a plant that contains such a plant cell.


I can recommend this firm specifically for Canadian plant IP:
https://www.smartbiggar.ca/insights/...lant-varieties
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