EarthTainer and other SWC questions? - Page 7

rnewste · May 18, 2010

Wargamer,

Way to go!!!

We need more experimentation to fine tune the EarthTainer growing system, and I really welcome all experiments and suggestions to give users a happy experience.

Be sure to keep us posted on your trials with photos, if possible.

Raybo

Wargamer777 · May 19, 2010

Ray,

Will do. I'll try and get some pics up soon. I've experimented with using the new Tomato Tone and Vigoro Tomato fertilizer too.

rnewste · May 19, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wargamer777

Ray,

I've experimented with using the new Tomato Tone and Vigoro Tomato fertilizer too.

Outstanding!! I really don't want to dis the "New" Tomato-tone, but in every trial that I have conducted since it was introduced, it fares poorly vs. the "Old" Tomato-tone, Tomaten Dunger, Fox Farms Peace of Mind, and others. I am interested to see your results vs. Vigoro Tomato Fertilizer.

Raybo

Wargamer777 · May 19, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnewste

Outstanding!! I really don't want to dis the "New" Tomato-tone, but in every trial that I have conducted since it was introduced, it fares poorly vs. the "Old" Tomato-tone, Tomaten Dunger, Fox Farms Peace of Mind, and others. I am interested to see your results vs. Vigoro Tomato Fertilizer.

Raybo

I know, but I didn't have a source for any old tomato tone or would I have gotten some.

Since I can't get any old Tomato Tone, which other fertilizers would you recommend?

EDIT: I see the Tomaten Dunger above, but we can't get that in the States, correct? And Fox Farms I'm not familiar with.

EDIT 2: CHECK that.. I just found a local source for the Fox Farms Peace of Mind. Looks like I'll go grab some of that unless you have any other recommendations?

rnewste · May 19, 2010

Wargamer,

If you can get some, I would include Lily Miller Tomato Fertilizer in your trials.

Fox Farms is usually available at Hydroponics Shops. Here is a photo of it on the left:

While Tomaten Dunger has given me the best results to date, of what selections that are readily available in the U.S., Fox Farms leads the rest in my personal trials. More results to be published later this Summer......

Raybo

Talon1189 · May 19, 2010

Not trying to hijack a thread. Happy Frog is the same exact formula as Peace of Mind......Happy Frog is the new name

$10.00 for a 4 pound bag here in Michigan. I liked the old name better IMO ......hahahaha. I called Fox Farms directly to confirm this information.

Wargamer777 · May 21, 2010

Got some pics up of 3 of my Earthtainers. I have 2 more that I just recently planted.

Up first...

Brandywine and Parks Whopper. I have 2 small fruit on the Parks Whopper already. This one uses the Sta-Green Yellow Vegetable Potting Mix and the Vigoro Fertilizer.

Second is a 31 gallon Best Plastics Earthtainer.

Pennsylvania Pink and Red Lightning

Using my own mix and Tomato Tone fertilizer.

3rd box build a week or so later...
Black Russian and Green Zebra

I used the Tomato tone in this box as well with Jiffy Mix Potting Soil.

svalli · May 27, 2010

I have purchased some heavy duty 60 liter plastic containers like this to make my own SWCs.

I am planning to do it simple and easy way using the light expanded clay aggregate at the bottom.

I wonder, if this design still needs the wicking basket, since the roots would not be able to grow to the water level through the fabric between the soil and aggregate and the moisture would not get to the soil, if the water level is low?

I found this video on similar design, but it does not have overflow drainage and no wicking basket.
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...ring-container

bmerryman · May 27, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by svalli

I wonder, if this design still needs the wicking basket, since the roots would not be able to grow to the water level through the fabric between the soil and aggregate and the moisture would not get to the soil, if the water level is low?

I found this video on similar design, but it does not have overflow drainage and no wicking basket.
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...ring-container

Taking a stab at this, it appears as if the LECA functions as the wick. Fascinating and simple if it works well.

rnewste · May 27, 2010

I like the approach. Wonder how you "modulate" the amount of water that gets wicked up into the Compost? Seems like a "Combo Mix" is appropriate here to not get the tomato plants too wet. Remember, for flowers wetness may be OK; for tomatoes, you can get a watered-down flavor from them in a high moisture environment - - think Hydroponic tomato taste.

In any event, something fun to experiment with. LECA is quite reasonable in Europe - but seems quite expensive in the U.S. I believe much of it is imported from Germany, so that may be the reason why.

Raybo

svalli · May 28, 2010

Thanks for the replies.

We have LECA for reasonable prices, but we do not have any good commercial pottig mixes, so I will mix perlite and vermiculite to a commercial peat product (it has lime and some fertilizer). I have Tomaten Dunger, which I will add to the mix. Is it better to mix the fertilizer evenly or but it as strip on the top of the potting mix?

I should try to figure out how test the wicking cabability of LECA. The overflow hole should keep the soil from getting too wet, but will the top LECA get too dry to get the water up to the plants' roots?

Now the containers will be kept outdoors, so I may have to add plastic on the top to prevent rain water from making the potting mix too soggy. If these containers work, I will use them in my GH, when it finally gets built and then I do not have to worry about rain.

Sari

rnewste · May 28, 2010

Sari,

I would avoid Vermiculite for a self watering container application, as it would hold too much moisture. A Peat Moss / conifer bark particles / Perlite combo mix would work well in your system. Again, I do have a concern that essentially the entire surface area of the landscape fabric becomes a wicking channel and could over-saturate the mix, which is not good for tomatoes, but building a few will quickly tell if this will not be an issue.

I recommend mixing in a small amount of Starter Fertilizer with the Dolomite Lime, then putting most of the tomato fertilizer in a single (or dual) strip just below the surface of the mix along the axis of the plants.

Raybo

Salty_Dog · June 23, 2010

Hey all, i just wanted to check back to the thread i started last year to thank those that help me.

Unfortunitly i lost my digital camera half way through the grow, so i could really keep the journal going as i wanted too.

Needless to say, the SWC idea was a great success (in my mind anyway)
It wasn't the same vigor or yield my friend got using the same seedlings planted in his prepared garden beds, but it was enough to prove to me it works and works well... All SWC containers outstripped my other test seedlings that where in normal containers of the same size.

They were fun to build, got a lot of attention and best of all, produced lots of fruit and flavor.

I did notice a couple of things... my plants died off before those in the ground.
Some of the SWC worked better than others and once pulled down and the roots inspected, you could see exactly why....

Some of my SWC had an entire root structure in them, full and complete... others only had roots for the top 5 inches or so... and as such, had a poor yield.

Now i blame myself for those, for taking cost cutting short cuts on Potting Mix...

So next time, i will pay more attention to those details.

Anyway, just wanted to report back and thank those that helped me enjoy my own success.....

Special thanks to Ray also for always being there to answer my newbie questions.

Looking forward to next season, only 4 months to wait.

rnewste · June 23, 2010

Salty,

Thanks for the report. Glad they gave you "incremental" production where in-ground cultivation is not possible.

I am finding that the Grow Media is the most important element in the health and productivity of the plants. As you observed, plants with a shallow root system did poorly while those who developed a full root system did much better.

To this end, I continue to experiment with different combinations of ingredients, favoring the 3:2:1 ratio of Potting Mix, Bark particles, and Perlite in that order. Not sure if you can source identical ingredients in Australia (Pine Bark Fines, as an example) but you should be able to easily improvise to get a light, well drained Combo Mix for your next Season. ...something to look forward to over your cool Season down-time.

Raybo

Salty_Dog · June 24, 2010

You are correct Ray...

My mix was most likely too much bark fines (Thus why it was cheap to buy)
This up coming session i will take the time to source a more quality mix and add some perlite.

Seems from my root development... That it is one thing to start the wicking process, its another to keep it going.
Days of missed watering might of been forgiving with some of my SWC, but perhaps not all.
Even some that had a good root system might of developed a "lock out" and stopped feeding???

Anyway, i'm sure with a more "complete" mix, i will have vastly improved results this time around.

May 19, 2010	#96
Talon1189 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Farmington, Michigan. Zone 5b/6a Posts: 421	Not trying to hijack a thread. Happy Frog is the same exact formula as Peace of Mind......Happy Frog is the new name $10.00 for a 4 pound bag here in Michigan. I liked the old name better IMO ......hahahaha. I called Fox Farms directly to confirm this information. __________________ Always looking for a better way to grow tomatoes .......... Last edited by Talon1189; May 19, 2010 at 08:02 PM.

May 27, 2010	#98
svalli Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vaasa, Finland, latitude N 63° Posts: 838	I have purchased some heavy duty 60 liter plastic containers like this to make my own SWCs. I am planning to do it simple and easy way using the light expanded clay aggregate at the bottom. I wonder, if this design still needs the wicking basket, since the roots would not be able to grow to the water level through the fabric between the soil and aggregate and the moisture would not get to the soil, if the water level is low? I found this video on similar design, but it does not have overflow drainage and no wicking basket. http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-...ring-container __________________ "I only want to live in peace, plant potatoes and dream." - Moomin-troll by Tove Jansson

May 28, 2010	#101
svalli Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vaasa, Finland, latitude N 63° Posts: 838	Thanks for the replies. We have LECA for reasonable prices, but we do not have any good commercial pottig mixes, so I will mix perlite and vermiculite to a commercial peat product (it has lime and some fertilizer). I have Tomaten Dunger, which I will add to the mix. Is it better to mix the fertilizer evenly or but it as strip on the top of the potting mix? I should try to figure out how test the wicking cabability of LECA. The overflow hole should keep the soil from getting too wet, but will the top LECA get too dry to get the water up to the plants' roots? Now the containers will be kept outdoors, so I may have to add plastic on the top to prevent rain water from making the potting mix too soggy. If these containers work, I will use them in my GH, when it finally gets built and then I do not have to worry about rain. Sari __________________ "I only want to live in peace, plant potatoes and dream." - Moomin-troll by Tove Jansson

May 18, 2010	#91
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Wargamer, Way to go!!! We need more experimentation to fine tune the EarthTainer growing system, and I really welcome all experiments and suggestions to give users a happy experience. Be sure to keep us posted on your trials with photos, if possible. Raybo

May 19, 2010	#92
Wargamer777 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boiling Springs, SC Posts: 60	Ray, Will do. I'll try and get some pics up soon. I've experimented with using the new Tomato Tone and Vigoro Tomato fertilizer too.

May 21, 2010	#97
Wargamer777 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boiling Springs, SC Posts: 60	Got some pics up of 3 of my Earthtainers. I have 2 more that I just recently planted. Up first... Brandywine and Parks Whopper. I have 2 small fruit on the Parks Whopper already. This one uses the Sta-Green Yellow Vegetable Potting Mix and the Vigoro Fertilizer. Second is a 31 gallon Best Plastics Earthtainer. Pennsylvania Pink and Red Lightning Using my own mix and Tomato Tone fertilizer. 3rd box build a week or so later... Black Russian and Green Zebra I used the Tomato tone in this box as well with Jiffy Mix Potting Soil.

May 27, 2010	#100
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	I like the approach. Wonder how you "modulate" the amount of water that gets wicked up into the Compost? Seems like a "Combo Mix" is appropriate here to not get the tomato plants too wet. Remember, for flowers wetness may be OK; for tomatoes, you can get a watered-down flavor from them in a high moisture environment - - think Hydroponic tomato taste. In any event, something fun to experiment with. LECA is quite reasonable in Europe - but seems quite expensive in the U.S. I believe much of it is imported from Germany, so that may be the reason why. Raybo

May 28, 2010	#102
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Sari, I would avoid Vermiculite for a self watering container application, as it would hold too much moisture. A Peat Moss / conifer bark particles / Perlite combo mix would work well in your system. Again, I do have a concern that essentially the entire surface area of the landscape fabric becomes a wicking channel and could over-saturate the mix, which is not good for tomatoes, but building a few will quickly tell if this will not be an issue. I recommend mixing in a small amount of Starter Fertilizer with the Dolomite Lime, then putting most of the tomato fertilizer in a single (or dual) strip just below the surface of the mix along the axis of the plants. Raybo

June 23, 2010	#103
Salty_Dog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lorne, Australia Posts: 188	Hey all, i just wanted to check back to the thread i started last year to thank those that help me. Unfortunitly i lost my digital camera half way through the grow, so i could really keep the journal going as i wanted too. Needless to say, the SWC idea was a great success (in my mind anyway) It wasn't the same vigor or yield my friend got using the same seedlings planted in his prepared garden beds, but it was enough to prove to me it works and works well... All SWC containers outstripped my other test seedlings that where in normal containers of the same size. They were fun to build, got a lot of attention and best of all, produced lots of fruit and flavor. I did notice a couple of things... my plants died off before those in the ground. Some of the SWC worked better than others and once pulled down and the roots inspected, you could see exactly why.... Some of my SWC had an entire root structure in them, full and complete... others only had roots for the top 5 inches or so... and as such, had a poor yield. Now i blame myself for those, for taking cost cutting short cuts on Potting Mix... So next time, i will pay more attention to those details. Anyway, just wanted to report back and thank those that helped me enjoy my own success..... Special thanks to Ray also for always being there to answer my newbie questions. Looking forward to next season, only 4 months to wait.

June 23, 2010	#104
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Salty, Thanks for the report. Glad they gave you "incremental" production where in-ground cultivation is not possible. I am finding that the Grow Media is the most important element in the health and productivity of the plants. As you observed, plants with a shallow root system did poorly while those who developed a full root system did much better. To this end, I continue to experiment with different combinations of ingredients, favoring the 3:2:1 ratio of Potting Mix, Bark particles, and Perlite in that order. Not sure if you can source identical ingredients in Australia (Pine Bark Fines, as an example) but you should be able to easily improvise to get a light, well drained Combo Mix for your next Season. ...something to look forward to over your cool Season down-time. Raybo

June 24, 2010	#105
Salty_Dog Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Lorne, Australia Posts: 188	You are correct Ray... My mix was most likely too much bark fines (Thus why it was cheap to buy) This up coming session i will take the time to source a more quality mix and add some perlite. Seems from my root development... That it is one thing to start the wicking process, its another to keep it going. Days of missed watering might of been forgiving with some of my SWC, but perhaps not all. Even some that had a good root system might of developed a "lock out" and stopped feeding??? Anyway, i'm sure with a more "complete" mix, i will have vastly improved results this time around.