When to Pull Them - Page 10

AlittleSalt · June 22, 2016

As far as beans, the first picture is asparagus beans planted 3' away from heavily nematode infected tomato roots - the worst in the garden.

The second picture is asparagus beans planted 5' away from those in the first pic. The support is 7'-3" tall. The difference looks like a before-and-after, but I just took the pictures.

As I watched the differences happen on a daily basis - I knew there had to be something very wrong going on.

Beans are known for all kinds of viruses, bacterial diseases, RKN, etc.

Zone9b · June 22, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSalvage

Margaret Tuttle McGrath from Cornell has really been a busy lady. I'm still trying to digest all of this. Believe it or not she has even more data on this.

http://tinyurl.com/gwpelj4
http://tinyurl.com/zjpc2l2
http://tinyurl.com/hfnw8em

Looks like interesting reading in terms of soil preparation especially related to blight. However, I don't see the word Nematode in any of them. Also, their trials appear to be in NY state. Most folks in the northern CONUS never heard of a nematode, let alone having to deal with them. Lucky them!

AlittleSalt · June 23, 2016

I really should say/write this. The days it took me to get the garden from growing nematode infected plants to being solarized really wiped me out. I've been doing so much reading along the way. Some of it is confusing because so many things are being tried to control nematodes - or at least lessen them.

I have not read one site saying they have the cure.

I think I have a sound game plan through all my research and yours (You all - Y'all) but to be certain my plan of action will work is far from where I am at now. It's an ongoing fight. Right now, I'm trying to do what sounds best for my area and growing situation.

Solarizing will naturally kill out nematodes because they cannot live through extreme heat, but those nematodes that are deeper in ground will survive. The way I prepared for solarization was to till in as much mulched dried oak leaves as possible - meaning there as much mulched oak leaves as there is soil in the first 8 or so inches deep.

The Elbon cereal rye is one that can be planted and low mowed regularly. (No off season for the mower.) This will keep it from going to seed and becoming a nuisance weed. It is my thought that this will add more brown organic matter along the way. Mowed grass has to dry out at some point. Then when the time is right - maybe early January - I do the final mowing and till it in - roots and all creating green manure. ( I left so much out)

Elbon Cereal Rye is supposed to trap nematodes in the root system killing them. It is supposedly also a biofumigant. Some of the same can be said/written about mustard greens. I like the organic part. I know Organic can be a point of controversy. The way I define organic is plants and animals/insects helping to grow more naturally. But in a way - that's another topic. I just happen to like this approach.

I still haven't researched good nematodes much. When I start feeling better I'll look into those better. My main goal was/is to make our garden produce again.

If it doesn't work, I will have given it one heck of a try.

All of this coming from someone who chose gardening as a way to deal with a nerve disease - instead of useless narcotic pain medicines.

Worth1 · June 23, 2016

Apply 10 gallons of kerosene per 400 square feet let soak in and light a match.
Worth

Zone9b · June 23, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

Apply 10 gallons of kerosene per 400 square feet let soak in and light a match.
Worth

That ought to get em!

Gardeneer · June 23, 2016

Robert, how about learning how to graft ? . It should make gardening doubly fun

I would want to do that just mostly for sports as I have no Nematodes issue.
But , if you have read Bill's comments on the subject you might also expect increase production.
I was going to use Big Beef as root stock this year but not enough of them germinated so I abandoned the project. Maybe next season.

Gardeneer

AlittleSalt · June 23, 2016

Gardeneer, I am giving grafting serious thought.

There was good news today. It was mowing day and there were some tomato plants overgrown with weeds that needed mowed. I pulled the tomato plants and there was no signs of nematode damage.

These were extra plants that I could have either tossed into the compost bin or plant outside the garden. I chose to plant them just for the heck of it. Most were crosses.

One other thing, I've been looking at in the Tomato Growers catalog at N varieties. I'll post a list when I get it finished. There are a lot of additional varieties listed on page 15 that I'll have to look up. (It's a list without pictures and details.)

AlittleSalt · June 23, 2016

I looked through the Tomato Growers catalog and website. I chose TG because I have a catalog from them and I like processing/handling charges to be the same no matter how few or how many you order. I also like looking through a paper catalog instead of just online. I have never ordered from TG. Here is a list of tomato varieties that have N in the description:

Beef Master VFN
Bella Rosa VFFNA
Better Boy VFN
Better Bush VFN
Big Beef VFFNTA
Burpee's Supersteak VFN
Bush Early Girl VFFNT
Carmelo VFNT
Celebrity VFFNTA
Champion II VFNT
Dixie Red VFFNA
First Prize VFFNT
Jetsetter VFFNTA
La Roma III VFFNA
Lemon Boy VFN
Mariana VFFNA
Mountain Merit VFFFN
Royesta FFNT
Super Marzano VFNT
Sweet Chelsea VFNT
Sweet Million FNT
Sweet Quartz VFNT
Sweet Seedless VFNT
Tomande VFFNT
Yaqui VFFNA

AlittleSalt · June 24, 2016

Have you ever heard the idiom: All dressed up and nowhere to go? I had it in my head to get up and start taking the rest of the plants out of the main garden to start getting it ready to be solarized. However, the nerve disease says otherwise today. Oh well, they'll be there tomorrow or the next day - it should be a better day healthwise. This post will be long.

We (My wife Jan, son, and I) have been talking about the main garden next year. We will most likely grow only 8 tomato plants in the garden at 4' apart in remesh cages (One Row). I want to grow only N nematode resistant tomato plants. Jan likes to see tomato plants that are only pruned at the bottom. She likes seeing big monster sized plants, and I enjoy seeing the huge plants myself. We are thinking of planting two plants each of Big Beef, Sweet Chelsea, Sweet Million, and maybe give Celebrity another chance - or go with Bella Rosa instead.

~~~

Away from the main garden, 80+ feet away in raised beds will have heirloom, OP, and a few hybrids like Sungold and Suncherry. Cherry tomatoes will be pruned and grown on horizontal lines. The support system is 7' tall and 34' long. I have a picture in my mind of pruned cherry tomato plants growing that tall. I know of three cherry tomato varieties that will grow that tall and even taller if you let them - Sungold, Red Ambrosia, and WOW - all are sweet cherry tomatoes. I'll want to grow some blue and black varieties on that support system as well.

In a separate 12' x 15' keyhole raised bed will be some heirloom and OP varieties like Porter and Rebel Yell. The keyhole is 4' x 9' and makes it easy to reach into the beds. I should mention that the 34' long raised bed in the paragraph above this one is built the same way but has 3 keyholes the same size - giving four 5'-6" x 9' beds to plant in. We'll probably plant squash and peppers in those areas, but that's subject to change.

~~~

Back to the nematode infected main garden - Hopefully our attempts to lessen the nematode population works, and we will be able to grow a much wider variety of vegetables. Everyone here at home agrees that we need to grow more greens (Especially mustard greens). My son and I want to grow some Asian varieties of vegetables. We already have some Wase and Toraji seeds, and it looks like Kitazawa will be happy to see our seed order. I would also like to try to grow asparagus - however the only thing I've heard about asparagus is that it takes two years to produce - something else new to read up on.

AlittleSalt · June 25, 2016

I'm doing something today that I never thought I would be doing - I'm watering the garden with a Rainbird sprinkler. The soil surface is dry making it difficult to pull the weeds out by the root. I let this side of the garden go when I learned why everything is growing stunted (Except tomatillos). I put all my effort and time into getting the tomato plants out and solarizing - so, yeah, there's a lot of weeds to get of out there.

It stinks to have to pull out the pepper and okra plants because both really like the summer growing conditions. However, they were all stunted and didn't have a chance. Our Okra was anywhere from 3" to 14" tall. The plants should have grown to at least 3 - 5' by now and be producing. We did get to see a couple okra flowers.

HudsonValley · July 18, 2016

Salt - You were one of the first TV members to welcome me here. I have hundreds -- actually, thousands -- of dwarf French marigold seeds from plants grown last year. (On the advice of a friend, I grew them to prevent root knot nematodes in my first garden in 2015. I have since learned that these nematodes are not terribly common in my area.) I grew a couple of marigolds from the seeds this year to use as ornamentals, but I have more seeds stashed away than I'll ever use. I'd be happy to mail them to you for your post-solarization garden.

AlittleSalt · July 18, 2016

Thank you. I have some growing and have been saving seeds from them. They are Dwarf French Marigolds with a very heavy scent to them. I haven't done a germination test yet.

HudsonValley · July 18, 2016

Any time you need/want more marigold seeds, send me a PM. I believe the variety is called "Happy Days" and is considered nematode-suppressive.

June 23, 2016	#143
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	I looked through the Tomato Growers catalog and website. I chose TG because I have a catalog from them and I like processing/handling charges to be the same no matter how few or how many you order. I also like looking through a paper catalog instead of just online. I have never ordered from TG. Here is a list of tomato varieties that have N in the description: Beef Master VFN Bella Rosa VFFNA Better Boy VFN Better Bush VFN Big Beef VFFNTA Burpee's Supersteak VFN Bush Early Girl VFFNT Carmelo VFNT Celebrity VFFNTA Champion II VFNT Dixie Red VFFNA First Prize VFFNT Jetsetter VFFNTA La Roma III VFFNA Lemon Boy VFN Mariana VFFNA Mountain Merit VFFFN Royesta FFNT Super Marzano VFNT Sweet Chelsea VFNT Sweet Million FNT Sweet Quartz VFNT Sweet Seedless VFNT Tomande VFFNT Yaqui VFFNA Last edited by AlittleSalt; June 24, 2016 at 10:43 AM.

June 24, 2016	#144
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Have you ever heard the idiom: All dressed up and nowhere to go? I had it in my head to get up and start taking the rest of the plants out of the main garden to start getting it ready to be solarized. However, the nerve disease says otherwise today. Oh well, they'll be there tomorrow or the next day - it should be a better day healthwise. This post will be long. We (My wife Jan, son, and I) have been talking about the main garden next year. We will most likely grow only 8 tomato plants in the garden at 4' apart in remesh cages (One Row). I want to grow only N nematode resistant tomato plants. Jan likes to see tomato plants that are only pruned at the bottom. She likes seeing big monster sized plants, and I enjoy seeing the huge plants myself. We are thinking of planting two plants each of Big Beef, Sweet Chelsea, Sweet Million, and maybe give Celebrity another chance - or go with Bella Rosa instead. ~~~ Away from the main garden, 80+ feet away in raised beds will have heirloom, OP, and a few hybrids like Sungold and Suncherry. Cherry tomatoes will be pruned and grown on horizontal lines. The support system is 7' tall and 34' long. I have a picture in my mind of pruned cherry tomato plants growing that tall. I know of three cherry tomato varieties that will grow that tall and even taller if you let them - Sungold, Red Ambrosia, and WOW - all are sweet cherry tomatoes. I'll want to grow some blue and black varieties on that support system as well. In a separate 12' x 15' keyhole raised bed will be some heirloom and OP varieties like Porter and Rebel Yell. The keyhole is 4' x 9' and makes it easy to reach into the beds. I should mention that the 34' long raised bed in the paragraph above this one is built the same way but has 3 keyholes the same size - giving four 5'-6" x 9' beds to plant in. We'll probably plant squash and peppers in those areas, but that's subject to change. ~~~ Back to the nematode infected main garden - Hopefully our attempts to lessen the nematode population works, and we will be able to grow a much wider variety of vegetables. Everyone here at home agrees that we need to grow more greens (Especially mustard greens). My son and I want to grow some Asian varieties of vegetables. We already have some Wase and Toraji seeds, and it looks like Kitazawa will be happy to see our seed order. I would also like to try to grow asparagus - however the only thing I've heard about asparagus is that it takes two years to produce - something else new to read up on. Last edited by AlittleSalt; June 24, 2016 at 06:44 PM.

June 23, 2016	#138
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	I really should say/write this. The days it took me to get the garden from growing nematode infected plants to being solarized really wiped me out. I've been doing so much reading along the way. Some of it is confusing because so many things are being tried to control nematodes - or at least lessen them. I have not read one site saying they have the cure. I think I have a sound game plan through all my research and yours (You all - Y'all) but to be certain my plan of action will work is far from where I am at now. It's an ongoing fight. Right now, I'm trying to do what sounds best for my area and growing situation. Solarizing will naturally kill out nematodes because they cannot live through extreme heat, but those nematodes that are deeper in ground will survive. The way I prepared for solarization was to till in as much mulched dried oak leaves as possible - meaning there as much mulched oak leaves as there is soil in the first 8 or so inches deep. The Elbon cereal rye is one that can be planted and low mowed regularly. (No off season for the mower.) This will keep it from going to seed and becoming a nuisance weed. It is my thought that this will add more brown organic matter along the way. Mowed grass has to dry out at some point. Then when the time is right - maybe early January - I do the final mowing and till it in - roots and all creating green manure. ( I left so much out) Elbon Cereal Rye is supposed to trap nematodes in the root system killing them. It is supposedly also a biofumigant. Some of the same can be said/written about mustard greens. I like the organic part. I know Organic can be a point of controversy. The way I define organic is plants and animals/insects helping to grow more naturally. But in a way - that's another topic. I just happen to like this approach. I still haven't researched good nematodes much. When I start feeling better I'll look into those better. My main goal was/is to make our garden produce again. If it doesn't work, I will have given it one heck of a try. All of this coming from someone who chose gardening as a way to deal with a nerve disease - instead of useless narcotic pain medicines.

June 23, 2016	#139
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Apply 10 gallons of kerosene per 400 square feet let soak in and light a match. Worth

June 23, 2016	#141
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,909	Robert, how about learning how to graft ? . It should make gardening doubly fun I would want to do that just mostly for sports as I have no Nematodes issue. But , if you have read Bill's comments on the subject you might also expect increase production. I was going to use Big Beef as root stock this year but not enough of them germinated so I abandoned the project. Maybe next season. Gardeneer

June 23, 2016	#142
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Gardeneer, I am giving grafting serious thought. There was good news today. It was mowing day and there were some tomato plants overgrown with weeds that needed mowed. I pulled the tomato plants and there was no signs of nematode damage. These were extra plants that I could have either tossed into the compost bin or plant outside the garden. I chose to plant them just for the heck of it. Most were crosses. One other thing, I've been looking at in the Tomato Growers catalog at N varieties. I'll post a list when I get it finished. There are a lot of additional varieties listed on page 15 that I'll have to look up. (It's a list without pictures and details.)

July 18, 2016	#146
HudsonValley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hudson Valley, NY, Zone 6a Posts: 626	Salt - You were one of the first TV members to welcome me here. I have hundreds -- actually, thousands -- of dwarf French marigold seeds from plants grown last year. (On the advice of a friend, I grew them to prevent root knot nematodes in my first garden in 2015. I have since learned that these nematodes are not terribly common in my area.) I grew a couple of marigolds from the seeds this year to use as ornamentals, but I have more seeds stashed away than I'll ever use. I'd be happy to mail them to you for your post-solarization garden.

July 18, 2016	#147
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	Thank you. I have some growing and have been saving seeds from them. They are Dwarf French Marigolds with a very heavy scent to them. I haven't done a germination test yet.

July 18, 2016	#148
HudsonValley Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hudson Valley, NY, Zone 6a Posts: 626	Any time you need/want more marigold seeds, send me a PM. I believe the variety is called "Happy Days" and is considered nematode-suppressive.