Pressure treated lumber and raised beds - Page 2

maxjohnson · December 6, 2016

Yeah I was about to post that link, I like his and OneYardRevolution evaluation on rockdust as well.

With that said, I choose not to use them. I'm in Florida and with 2x4 or 2x6 pine planks, has lasted me 3yrs so far, but it is definitely decaying away, which doesn't matter for me, since I'll turn it into a ground patch with woodchips mulching.

I do have one raised bed with concrete block, which I understand do not have fly ash like portland cinderblocks which you can't buy anyway. Only downside is it's quite heavy, but not a problem if you never intend to move it, but I can see a problem if you need to get rid of it or renting. They also say the material it the block can make the soil near it more alkaline, stuff is growing really well in it so I'm not concerned.

whoose · December 6, 2016

Hard for me to read Organic and treated lumber in the same line.

I use 2X red cedar, ever expensive here but why take a risk??

The cedar bed will out last me for sure.

I have two grandkids and prefer not to take any more chances than necessary.

brownrexx · December 6, 2016

I totally agree with you whoose. I read the links and am actually surprised that there is not a higher level of leaching of chemicals into the soil from treated lumber however that still does not mean that I will use anything that leaches chemicals. I am an organic gardener and that type of wood is NOT considered acceptable in an organic garden but if you are only using the produce for personal use then I guess that you can consider it organic if you want but by definitiion it is not organic.

The USDA allows a certain percentage of ground bone and insect parts in ground meat but that does not mean that I won't avoid it if I can. I don't care what level of insect parts in meat or heavy metals in vegetables is allowed. I don't want ANY.

To each his own, same as with using pesticides but I am very happy planting in my non-raised beds right in the improved native soil.

Raised beds look pretty but unless they are needed due to poor native soil or drainage issues, they sound like more trouble than they are worth to me.

ACEBUGGIES · December 7, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownrexx

I totally agree with you whoose. I read the links and am actually surprised that there is not a higher level of leaching of chemicals into the soil from treated lumber however that still does not mean that I will use anything that leaches chemicals. I am an organic gardener and that type of wood is NOT considered acceptable in an organic garden but if you are only using the produce for personal use then I guess that you can consider it organic if you want but by definitiion it is not organic.

The USDA allows a certain percentage of ground bone and insect parts in ground meat but that does not mean that I won't avoid it if I can. I don't care what level of insect parts in meat or heavy metals in vegetables is allowed. I don't want ANY.

To each his own, same as with using pesticides but I am very happy planting in my non-raised beds right in the improved native soil.

Raised beds look pretty but unless they are needed due to poor native soil or drainage issues, they sound like more trouble than they are worth to me.

Some of us need raised beds to make things easier on our bodies. Unfortunately we aren't all fully capable, and raising beds can be helpful in saving our backs, knees, etc. It can also help with keeping your soil from becoming compacted and it looks nice and pretty.

It is great you can plant directly in your soil without the need for pretty raised beds LOL. I understand not wanting chemicals at all in your garden, frankly if it were feasible for me I would use an untreated cedar.

I figure no matter what, even using the treated lumber it is better than store bought produce.

ACEBUGGIES · December 7, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxjohnson

Yeah I was about to post that link, I like his and OneYardRevolution evalulation on rockdust as well.

With that said, I choose not to use them. I'm in Florida and with 2x4 or 2x6 pine planks, has lasted me 3yrs so far, but it is definitely decaying away, which doesn't matter for me, since I'll turn it into a ground patch with woodchips mulching.

I do have one raised bed with concrete block, which I understand do not have fly ash like portland cinderblocks which you can't buy anyway. Only downside is it's quite heavy, but not a problem if you never intend to move it, but I can see a problem if you need to get rid of it or renting. They also say the material it the block can make the soil near it more alkaline, stuff is growing really well in it so I'm not concerned.

maxjohnson- Some of my favorite YouTube channels. They actually research and present scientific evidence, instead of just hearsay. I love MIgardener channel

too

Gardeneer · December 7, 2016

Well of course everybody is free to exercise his own life style from medicine, to food, to gardening. But to me there are risks in life that we take every single day ; driving a car, walking, breathing the air. I also smoke tobacco, knowing that it has health RISK. I take that risk as the cost for the pleasure I get out of it. I don't plant on living for ever.

YMMV

Worth1 · December 7, 2016

Is someone is serious about raised beds and worried about lumber they might cut their loses and go with stone concrete or cinder blocks.

Worth

Rajun Gardener · December 7, 2016

I looked into cinder blocks a while back and found this.

http://preventdisease.com/news/15/02...-Gardens.shtml

Cole_Robbie · December 7, 2016

I'm glad you posted that link, for the sake of discussion. Don't be offended, but that "prevent disease" web site has a reputation as a quack site with junk science. They write articles like that just to sell ads on their site. Just like with lumber, if concrete was dangerous it would be masons and concrete workers who got sick first.

Jimbotomateo · December 7, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoose

Hard for me to read Organic and treated lumber in the same line.

I use 2X red cedar, ever expensive here but why take a risk??

The cedar bed will out last me for sure.

I have two grandkids and prefer not to take any more chances than necessary.

You nailed it for me whoose. I'm goin raised beds this year, well some, and I only have one grandchild. She loves to help me in the garden so I gotta go with safety first. Like to grow some hot peppers but she's 20 months old and loves to grab the plants .

.jimbo

brownrexx · December 7, 2016

I don't plan on living forever either but I would like to live all of the years I have in good health. After watching a few people die of Cancer and also Alzheimer's, I don't take any risks that I can avoid, no matter how small. I feel that exposure to chemicals becomes cumulative over time. If a risk is unavoidable, like breathing or driving then I don't stress over it.

If I wanted to have raised beds, I think that I would bite the bullet and buy cedar rather than rationalizing the size of the risk in pressure treated lumber. Young children, who are still developing, have more of a risk than we do as adults.

whoose · December 7, 2016

I plan to do a how to on raised bed after the holidays. I will try to address the risk and rewards of the many decisions you need to make and the nuts and bolts of how to do it.

schill93 · December 7, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoose

I plan to do a how to on raised bed after the holidays. I will try to address the risk and rewards of the many decisions you need to make and the nuts and bolts of how to do it.

That would be very welcome.

jtjmartin · December 7, 2016

I use pressure treated lumber for my raised beds. I've seen no good scientific research on any ill effects from using wood treated with the new formulation. OTOH, I like a lot of the organic gardening and permaculture techniques and practices.

Living life has taught me that playing with thermometer mercury as a kid was probably not a great idea. Neither was riding in our station wagon without seatbelts, owning and shooting guns, and blowing things up with M-80s.

In my twenties I worked at the University of Maryland Shock Trauma (MIEMSS) - driving can absolutely kill and maim you! I still drive - a lot - and love it.

All in all, I think I'm probably at more risk cutting the boards for my raised beds than I'm in from what they are preserved with. Just my opinion - be happy to read any research.

Rajun Gardener · December 7, 2016

Cutting boards are dangerous

December 6, 2016	#16
maxjohnson Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: OH 6a Posts: 592	Yeah I was about to post that link, I like his and OneYardRevolution evaluation on rockdust as well. With that said, I choose not to use them. I'm in Florida and with 2x4 or 2x6 pine planks, has lasted me 3yrs so far, but it is definitely decaying away, which doesn't matter for me, since I'll turn it into a ground patch with woodchips mulching. I do have one raised bed with concrete block, which I understand do not have fly ash like portland cinderblocks which you can't buy anyway. Only downside is it's quite heavy, but not a problem if you never intend to move it, but I can see a problem if you need to get rid of it or renting. They also say the material it the block can make the soil near it more alkaline, stuff is growing really well in it so I'm not concerned. Last edited by maxjohnson; December 7, 2016 at 01:14 PM.

December 6, 2016	#17
whoose Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Bozeman, Montana Zone 6b Posts: 333	Why Take the Chance??? Hard for me to read Organic and treated lumber in the same line. I use 2X red cedar, ever expensive here but why take a risk?? The cedar bed will out last me for sure. I have two grandkids and prefer not to take any more chances than necessary.

December 6, 2016	#18
brownrexx Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Southeastern PA Posts: 1,420	I totally agree with you whoose. I read the links and am actually surprised that there is not a higher level of leaching of chemicals into the soil from treated lumber however that still does not mean that I will use anything that leaches chemicals. I am an organic gardener and that type of wood is NOT considered acceptable in an organic garden but if you are only using the produce for personal use then I guess that you can consider it organic if you want but by definitiion it is not organic. The USDA allows a certain percentage of ground bone and insect parts in ground meat but that does not mean that I won't avoid it if I can. I don't care what level of insect parts in meat or heavy metals in vegetables is allowed. I don't want ANY. To each his own, same as with using pesticides but I am very happy planting in my non-raised beds right in the improved native soil. Raised beds look pretty but unless they are needed due to poor native soil or drainage issues, they sound like more trouble than they are worth to me. Last edited by brownrexx; December 6, 2016 at 12:46 PM.

December 7, 2016	#21
Gardeneer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7 Posts: 4,915	Well of course everybody is free to exercise his own life style from medicine, to food, to gardening. But to me there are risks in life that we take every single day ; driving a car, walking, breathing the air. I also smoke tobacco, knowing that it has health RISK. I take that risk as the cost for the pleasure I get out of it. I don't plant on living for ever. YMMV __________________ Gardeneer Happy Gardening !

December 7, 2016	#27
whoose Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Bozeman, Montana Zone 6b Posts: 333	How to on Raised Beds I plan to do a how to on raised bed after the holidays. I will try to address the risk and rewards of the many decisions you need to make and the nuts and bolts of how to do it.

December 7, 2016	#22
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Is someone is serious about raised beds and worried about lumber they might cut their loses and go with stone concrete or cinder blocks. Worth

December 7, 2016	#23
Rajun Gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Tomato Cornhole Posts: 2,550	I looked into cinder blocks a while back and found this. http://preventdisease.com/news/15/02...-Gardens.shtml

December 7, 2016	#24
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I'm glad you posted that link, for the sake of discussion. Don't be offended, but that "prevent disease" web site has a reputation as a quack site with junk science. They write articles like that just to sell ads on their site. Just like with lumber, if concrete was dangerous it would be masons and concrete workers who got sick first.

December 7, 2016	#29
jtjmartin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2016 Location: Williamsburg VA Zone 7b Posts: 1,110	I use pressure treated lumber for my raised beds. I've seen no good scientific research on any ill effects from using wood treated with the new formulation. OTOH, I like a lot of the organic gardening and permaculture techniques and practices. Living life has taught me that playing with thermometer mercury as a kid was probably not a great idea. Neither was riding in our station wagon without seatbelts, owning and shooting guns, and blowing things up with M-80s. In my twenties I worked at the University of Maryland Shock Trauma (MIEMSS) - driving can absolutely kill and maim you! I still drive - a lot - and love it. All in all, I think I'm probably at more risk cutting the boards for my raised beds than I'm in from what they are preserved with. Just my opinion - be happy to read any research.