Cherokee Red Tomato

[TalkingRock]

I am hoping to find a couple of Cherokee Red Tomato plants. I was directed to this forum by Victory Seed folks. Be glad to pay for them, I have an elderly friend in a nursing home who says she remember how good these tomatoes were when she had a garden.

Thanks,
TalkingRock

[travis]

Rock,

Cherokee (Red) is a selection from an original cross of Walter x Ace55 backcrossed to Walter. It is a large vined determinate suited to the South.

I have some seeds from Victory and am starting them for a fall crop. My initial germination test showed poor results, but I plan on having maybe 6 - 10 plants started and only need a couple from which to save fresh seeds.

I've sent you a private message.

Another person who may have Cherokee (Red) ready to plant is SelectedPlants.com and he has the means to mail them to you in near perfect condition.

[TalkingRock]

Travis I have checked with Selected Plants thet do not have cherokee red either. I can give you my fed-x number if you have a couple of Cherokee Red plants to ship me .

Thanks,
TalkingRock

[ContainerTed]

I received seed for "Cherokee Brick Red" in a trade last year. It already has set fruit. It looks the same as the Victory Seed picture so far.

Could this be the same tomato???

Ted

[travis]

Rock,

I mailed two plants yesterday, Monday morning. They were about 10 inches tall and healthy. One was starting to bud.

The postal clerk said they went out priority mail and would be on your doorstep in 3 days or less. Hope that's not too late for you to make some tomatoes for the lady within the next 90 days.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

I received seed for "Cherokee Brick Red" in a trade last year. It already has set fruit. It looks the same as the Victory Seed picture so far.

Could this be the same tomato???

Ted

Cherokee Red and Cherokee Brick Red are two different varieties.

The parentage of Cherokee Red was described above and Victory Seeds lists it as does Sandhill, as just Cherokee, in the red section/

Craig first called Cherokee Purple Cherokee Brick Red and then changed that name ASAP to Cherokee Purple but obviously there are a few folks around who still don't realize that what they have is Cherokee Purple, and Ted, that's what you should have.

And since you've grown CP you should ASAP know the difference between Cherokee Brick Red, CP, vs and all red Cherokee Red.

Do you know anything about the person you traded with? It could be interesteing to see how CP is still being called Cherokee Brick Red, at least it would to me and I'm sure to Craig as well.

[ContainerTed]

Yes, Carolyn, I do know who sent me the seeds. It was David, DWLCRL. I had not heard CP called that, so I have been treating it as a separate variety. But then, I treat all seeds as separate varieties until grown out.

So, this year, I'll have CP (from Dan) and CP from David. The one from David has already set a fruit. Now, does that mean I have "CP" and "Early CP". LOL

Thanks for the info.

Ted

[travis]

The problem here may be that as late as in the 2008 Yearbook, and I don't know about 2009 because I don't have that Yearbook, SSE shows Cherokee Brick Red listed on page 361, red tomato section.

You may look there to see who the listers and their sources were, however one lister gives SSE tomato #4635, if that helps any with tracking down the possible origin.

As to the Cherokee (Red) I got from Victory, they went to the trouble in their catalog of clearly pointing out that it was a variety totally separate and unrelated to Cherokee Purple. I only append (Red) to the name Cherokee to clarify this variety and don't intend the color to be a part of the actual varietal name.

The plants I sent to Rock were from a couple of the seeds I test germinated about a month and a half ago and instead of wasting them, I poked them in starter mix out on the patio. The leaves looked distinctly different than the Cherokee Purple I have grown in the past. More serrated and more narrow.

[carolyn137]

My bad!!!!

I made the wrong association when I said Craig first called CP Cherokee Brick Red. It was Cherokee Chocolate, not CP that he initially called that.

I was reminded of that by Neil G. ( he's retiree here, not Neil who is a different person), a fomer subscriber to OTV and a long time friend of both Craig and myself when he e-mailed me tonight and said that in the Dec 1996 issue of OTV Craig had written:

"My most pleasant surprise of the year is a tomato I have temporarily called
Cherokee Brick Red Cross.Last year one of my Cherokee Purple plants gave brownish rather than "purplish" tomatoes"

And while Craig referred to it above as a cross, it wasn't, it was an epidermis mutation from the clear epidermis of CP to the yellow epidermis of Cherokee Chocolate, nee Cherokee Brick Red/

And when I went back to the 1997 SSE Yearbook I saw a listing for both Cherokee Brick Red as well as one for Cherokee Chocolate.

So, somehow the initial name Craig gave Cherokee Chocolate of Cherokee Brick Red, is still being used and probably some folks think it's a totally different variety.

Ted, You might want to share this with David and ask him to please stop using the variety name of Cherokee Brick Red, b'c I think it does cause confusion.

Thanks again Neil. And Travis, thanks to you as well, but I'd already gone back to the 1996 and 1997 Yearbooks before I saw your post here.

A listing for Cherokee Brick Red should be deleted from the SSE Yearbook and I'll mention that to Craig and he can see what can be done, if anything.

[ContainerTed]

So, Cherokee Brick Red is actually Cherokee Chocolate and neither have anything to do with Cherokee (Red) which is listed well by Victory Seeds.

It that right????

Ted

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

So, Cherokee Brick Red is actually Cherokee Chocolate and neither have anything to do with Cherokee (Red) which is listed well by Victory Seeds.

It that right????

Ted

Correct. Both Sandhill and Victory list Cherokee, and the red is implied as it has been in past SSE YEarbook listings as well.

It's like saying Brandywine Pink where the pink is redundant and unnecessary b'c Brandywine is pink.

Travis gave the parentage for Cherokee in a previous post in this thread; it was once a fairly well known commercial variety.

[dice]

IIRC ("if I recall correctly") Tanager Song Farm listed
Cherokee (red) as "Cherokee VF". Same description as
for Victory and Sandhill's Cherokee (4' determinate red, etc).
According to the North American Cultivar List, it was developed
at NC State.

[travis]

Yes, the Vegetable Cultivar Descriptions for North America is where I got the parentage information for Cherokee. Yes, it was an NCSU product and had the designation NC BC1-32. It's also reported to do well in Southern heat. Hopefully that information is correct.

"Cherokee (NC BC1-32) - Breeder and vendor: North Carolina State University, Fletcher. Parentage: [(Walter x Ace 55VF)F2 x Walter]F7. Characteristics: fresh market, large determinate, late season, medium-slightly large fruit, uniform green shoulder. Resistance: fusarium wilt races 1 and 2, verticillium wilt race 1. HortScience 17:92-93, 1982. 1981." http://cuke.hort.ncsu.edu/cucurbit/w...vgclintro.html

And yes, Cherokee is VFF as described in the List.