Marianna's Heirloom Seeds...

[gixxerific]

Your welcome Carolyn and good to know you two caught up on what's going on.

I still do not see a reason to put a packed on date on a packet, that is of no use. I do always put the date they were produced however. You could have 10 yr old seeds but if you put 2012 - 2013 on them what does that mean?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by gixxerific

Your welcome Carolyn and good to know you two caught up on what's going on.

I still do not see a reason to put a packed on date on a packet, that is of no use. I do always put the date they were produced however. You could have 10 yr old seeds but if you put 2012 - 2013 on them what does that mean?

Yes, one could have 10 yo seeds and put a current packed by date on them but if germination tests are done and germination is still good I don't see a problem with that.

Most larger and some smaller companies store their seeds in temperature and humidity controlled environments. I remember once when there were power outages at TGS due to a hurricane that Linda was very concerned about the seeds in storage. But I do think that she might have had generators set up after that LONG power outage. For shorter times it shouldn't have been much of a problem.

[kath]

Originally Posted by gixxerific

I still do not see a reason to put a packed on date on a packet, that is of no use. I do always put the date they were produced however. You could have 10 yr old seeds but if you put 2012 - 2013 on them what does that mean?

I agree that "packed on" and "use by" dates are useless and misleading. The method that seems the most forthright and helpful is to include the date and results of the germination test. Johnny's, Turtle Tree and Fedco do this and I really appreciate it. This year I had several shockingly poor results from seeds from "new" packets from 3 different sources that either listed "packed on" dates or no dates at all and this thread's really got me thinking about where to place my orders for next season. Does anyone know of other sellers who share germination information?

[carolyn137]

Kath, please see my post above yours b'c I do think under certain circumstances, as I pointed out , it's OK to use a packed by date if germination tests are done and the seeds are OK.

[Tania]

I think that knowing the year the seeds were produced is much more useful information, assuming the germination tests are done by vendors every year on seeds produced in previous years.

This gives gardeners a good idea on how long the purchased seeds could be stored, if they are not planted the same year or if they want to continue planting the same variety from the original seed packets in subsequent years.

So I really appreciate how Carolyn puts year when the seeds were saved on her packets. When I order seeds from other SSE members, I also ask them to put the year, and most of them do that for me, but some do not. This year I had seeds from SSE members dated as far back as 2002, and germination was 60-80%, which was very impressive, given the fact that most of the SSE members do not have facilities to store their seeds in long term storage.

I tested my 2005 and 2006 seeds for germination in April this year, and most came close to 100%. However, I do store them in a fridge, which may help to keep them more viable.

I am not aware of any seed vendors except Blue Ribbon Tomatoes (in 2009, but I hope she continues doing that) who'd put year saved on the packet. I started doing it last year, but still have a few 'old style' labels that I have to use that do not have the information printed on them.

I understand what Carolyn says, as having no seed saved or packaged dates is much worse than at least having a 'packed by' date as a guidance!

[kath]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Kath, please see my post above yours b'c I do think under certain circumstances, as I pointed out , it's OK to use a packed by date if germination tests are done and the seeds are OK.

Yes, our posts crossed but I did see yours after mine was posted, Carolyn. I don't understand how just a packed by date insures that the germination tests actually were done and there's certainly no way to know what the results were.

Tania makes a good point in that even if the date and results of germination tests are shown, it still doesn't tell you how old the seeds are- an extremely important bit of information if you plan to store leftover seeds and continue to use them for years. So maybe the year of production is the key factor if we have to limit it to one.

Unfortunately, for a long time I made the mistake of assuming that vendors provided fresh seed each year and so one year when I got terrible germination for a favorite lettuce, I made the mistake of ordering the same seed the following year from the same vendor. I was completely at a loss when the germination was still terrible- later I realized that it was probably just more of the same old seed! A packed by or packed for date is just misleading if old seed is just repackaged.

[Tania]

I have been assuming that the seed companies that have 'packed for' date on the packets do perform germination tests before they package the batch. It would not make sense otherwise, would it?

[shelleybean]

Southern Exposure dates the packet and provides the germination rate. I've received seed from them that had a rate lower than 70% and they've given me extra seed in the packet.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tania

I have been assuming that the seed companies that have 'packed for' date on the packets do perform germination tests before they package the batch. It would not make sense otherwise, would it?

And I agree with your assumption Tania.

As I said, I do know some of the places where many here do get tomato seed from, which is what we're talking about, I assume, but certainly not ALL places, just where I know some of the owners and have talked to them about it.

There are Federal Standards of germination for all kinds of seeds sold, and that includes tomato seed as well. But it's not enforced that much and I think the target may be the much larger seed companies.

I have a link in my faves that states those Federal Germination Standards, but I now have over 2,000 items in my faves, don't ask,, and I'm not in the mood to go fishing. But I'm sure anyone interested can find them by Googling.

[beefyboy]

I agree with all that is written and only common sense! but I thought this was about should a company stamp dates or not! lol I manufactured protein powders, green foods, and flaxseed oils for retail and wholesale and my products were sold in many health food stores throughout the U.S and the internet and without a doubt, it is all about when it is produced that counts! but if it is strictly an option for a company and not regulated in any way than I would settle for a date stamped than no date at all. Common practices (I would think) in the seed industry would be under a year for any honest trustworthy company, so that gives you a good idea on how old that seed is within reason, Just my opinion!
But now is the time for us Florida growers to be setting out our plants and I am way ahead since I got mine out on the 10th. Happy growing to all way down South!!

[beefyboy]

I dont know who the lobbyist is for Marianna's seeds who states having 10 yr. old seed being sold with 2012 dated on it, but I would hardly think that company would be around very long. I mean seriously, get real.

[Sherry_AK]

TGS has some kind of an alpha code (understood only by them) on the seed pack, which probably would reveal date packed. I've learned to just write the year on the packs as I receive them so I have some idea of age.

[remy]

To clear up the pack date stuff~
It is required by law to have a pack date on seed packets.
The pack date is suppose to be an assurance to the consumer that testing was done for that year that the seed passes federal germination standards. Places can put the actual % on the pack too. I do not, but I make sure my seed is above the standard so as not to run into too many problems even if someone's seed starting practices are not too good.
The pack date also ensures that the seller is not held responsible when a customer complains a year or longer after purchasing the seed. Yes, most seed stored properly will be good for a few subsequent year's sowing. Not everyone stores things properly though.
Remy

[Sherry_AK]

Remy -- Just curious ... are there different standards for different types of seeds? What is the standard for tomato seeds? Thanks.

Sherry

[kath]

Thanks, Remy- the specifics in you post helped me understand this better. The pack date should be sufficient then to guarantee adequate germination for that year but there's still no way to know when the seed was produced or how it was stored before the consumer receives it.

I was talking about all kinds of veggie seeds, btw. I'm sure the federal germination standards are available online. So the companies that don't print any dates on seed packets aren't following the law- wow- that's very surprising, then. Guess you've got to go by reputation and your own and others' experiences as described online to gauge who's really following the guidelines- or start saving more of your own seeds.