Herbicide damage? Or something else?

SummerSky · May 24, 2014

Some of my tomatoes are getting these weird new leaves and I'm not sure what the deal is. The closest I got to on image search was herbicide damage, but I'm not sure when they would have been exposed. It's been a couple weeks since the last they had any possibility of being exposed (they went from my suburban house to my parent's farm, and they don't treat their lawns and it's too early to spray fields).

Most of them had some sort of crud going on earlier (powdery mildew, grey mold, or edema, I don't know which, it cleared up when I put them in the greenhouse on my parent's farm). Not all of the plants that had the crud are displaying this new growth, and some that didn't have the crud are displaying the new problem. I've picked the occasional aphid off, but nothing serious.

They have not been planted out yet, since I haven't been able to turn over my garden. Could this be a reaction to getting root bound? Bad potting mix? Heat? Disease? Or does it take time for a possible herbicide exposure to show? If I get off my butt and plant them, will they start sending out normal growth and recover?

The picture I'm attaching is of a Polish Linguisa, one of the ones that get hit badly by the crud. I planted this particular plant in a one gallon pot after I took the picture, since I want to see if it recovers are just dies. I'll probably torch the rest that are this bad. I over started, and I don't have space for all of them. I just want to know what this is so I can recognize it in the future.

**carolyn137** · May 24, 2014

I wouldn't throw out any of your plants right now b/c I often see strange leaves early in the season, no herbicide drift, no rootbound anything b'c I put out rootbound seedlings on purpose.

Leaves can be upside down, curled into a tube, and more.

So I suggest you look at Physiological Leaf Roll first,

https://www.google.com/#q=physiologi...n+tomato+plant

When looking at the IMAGES link be sure to put your mouse over a picture to be sure it's leaf roll you're looking at b'c sometimes some other stuff is shown as well. But several of the single links are good aswell,

Carolyn

SummerSky · May 24, 2014

Thank you so much Carolyn!

mecktom · May 24, 2014

Carolyn, why do you prefer root bound seedlings? Just curious.

**Lee** · May 25, 2014

Looks like what I've seen as 2,4-D damage.... but could be other things as well. What kind of potting mix did you use?
One year I had put dried grass clippings as mulch around a few potted plants. A couple of days later, the new growth exhibited the exact look you are showing. (The grass had 2,4-D applied about 6 weeks! earlier.)
I removed the "mulch" and watered the plants very thoroughly to wash out any residue. Most recovered, and I've not used grass clippings as mulch since then!

Good luck with your diagnosis.

Lee

ginger2778 · May 25, 2014

It really looks like herbicide damage to me too. But it doesn't look fatal just yet. If that was my plant I would flush it out really thoroughly, then at the next needed watering, give it some dilute fertilizer,half strength, and go from there. Basically, what Lee suggested. Oh and flush the leaves too, in case it was drift from a neighbor.
Maybe it isn't fatal.

Marsha

**carolyn137** · May 25, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by mecktom

Carolyn, why do you prefer root bound seedlings? Just curious.

I transplant small seedlings from the seed trays directly to plastic 6 paks where each cell is about 2 X 2 inches, and they are grown in those cells until 6-9 inches tall before hardening off and setting out.

I never potted up b'c I found that the more you pot up the larger the root system, which is a fragile fibrous root system, which can break apart easily.

So I prefer putting out the rootbound ones from the 6 paks since I've found the root system stays intact and almost explodes to form new roots ASAP.

Carolyn

b54red · May 25, 2014

I hope you'll are wrong about herbicide damage. I have the same thing showing up in one bed but it isn't on all the plants. The bed ten feet away has absolutely none of those symptoms. The only difference in the two beds of tomatoes is the bed with some of the plants showing these symptoms were planted two weeks later. The affected plants are not all together either. In one row there might be four or five showing these symptoms scattered among others that look totally normal.

The weather has changed drastically in the past week going from warm days and cool nights with a fair amount of rainfall to extremely hot and dry with much hotter nights. I have watered and fertilized all the plants the same and with them all mixed in I just don't see how it could be herbicide damage but I have had herbicide damage before and it does look similar. There has also been a lot of yard service people working around the neighborhood this past week which always gives me the willies. The difference from the past herbicide damage is I am not seeing the weird growth but more a shrinking and narrowing of all the new growth with no color change. I watered everything yesterday so I'll see how the plants look today and may take a few pics if there is no improvement or if there is a worsening of the symptoms.

Bill

SummerSky · May 25, 2014

I used Green Envy organic potting soil when I potted them up, but that was a month ago. I'm not happy with the potting soil I used, since the plants I put in just regular MG potting soil look a lot better in general.

It would have been weeks since they last had *any* chance of exposure to 2,4-D, and I honestly can't say for sure if they even did. My parents do not treat their yard, and haven't even planted their fields yet (doing that today, fun fun).

Honestly, I have a hard time believing it's herbicide damage because it just doesn't add up. The leaves do look like all the light 2,4-D damage I've seen (online of course, I have zero experience outside of that).

Either way, it looks like my only choice is to plant them out and see what they do.

SummerSky · May 25, 2014

Bad news, almost all of my 100+ tomatoes are turning yellow. Lower leaves are starting to wilt. Only the two Purple Calabash plants I started just for kicks seem totally oblivious to everything.

My dad (who has grown tomatoes for 35+ years, although not from seed) looked at them and said he would rather just buy some transplants from the store. I was totally crushed. He wasn't being a jerk about it, he had offered to buy them and was sympathetic, but he sees no reason why I should struggle trying to revive sickly plants when relatively healthy ones are right around the corner. It stings though to see my effort and excitement start wilting before my eyes. They were sort of dry (not fully dry), so I watered them good in hopes that maybe they were just reacting to how hot the day was, but an hour later and going into dusk there was no change. I looked them over for signs of mites or bugs, but I couldn't find anything at all.

I'm thinking of taking him up on his offer. Store bought transplants are not without their problems, but they have to have less problems than mine do. At least that way I can enjoy my garden this year and not have to be so paranoid over it. I won't be able to find my unusual varieties I was excited about (Jersey Devil, Opalka, Blush, etc), but at least I'll have something to make decent sauce out of in late summer. My tomatoes have been fighting me tooth and nail this year, maybe it's time to take the hint.

I'll check them over in the morning before deciding. Who knows, maybe they will look more worth while after a good night's rest...

Mark0820 · May 24, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by b54red

The weather has changed drastically in the past week going from warm days and cool nights with a fair amount of rainfall to extremely hot and dry with much hotter nights. I have watered and fertilized all the plants the same and with them all mixed in I just don't see how it could be herbicide damage but I have had herbicide damage before and it does look similar. There has also been a lot of yard service people working around the neighborhood this past week which always gives me the willies. The difference from the past herbicide damage is I am not seeing the weird growth but more a shrinking and narrowing of all the new growth with no color change. I watered everything yesterday so I'll see how the plants look today and may take a few pics if there is no improvement or if there is a worsening of the symptoms.

Bill

Bill, did this turn out to be herbicide damage?

wormgirl · May 25, 2015

So sorry, SummerSky. I suppose it could be bad potting soil. I think I got some last year. It killed every strawberry plant it touched.

You could try saving your rarer varieties and buy others at the store. That way if they recover you still get your Opalkas and stuff. Hedging your bets...

May 24, 2014	#2
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I wouldn't throw out any of your plants right now b/c I often see strange leaves early in the season, no herbicide drift, no rootbound anything b'c I put out rootbound seedlings on purpose. Leaves can be upside down, curled into a tube, and more. So I suggest you look at Physiological Leaf Roll first, https://www.google.com/#q=physiologi...n+tomato+plant When looking at the IMAGES link be sure to put your mouse over a picture to be sure it's leaf roll you're looking at b'c sometimes some other stuff is shown as well. But several of the single links are good aswell, Carolyn __________________ Carolyn

May 25, 2014	#5
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	Looks like what I've seen as 2,4-D damage.... but could be other things as well. What kind of potting mix did you use? One year I had put dried grass clippings as mulch around a few potted plants. A couple of days later, the new growth exhibited the exact look you are showing. (The grass had 2,4-D applied about 6 weeks! earlier.) I removed the "mulch" and watered the plants very thoroughly to wash out any residue. Most recovered, and I've not used grass clippings as mulch since then! Good luck with your diagnosis. Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

May 24, 2014	#3
SummerSky Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Michigan Posts: 126	Thank you so much Carolyn!

May 24, 2014	#4
mecktom Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Southern Virginia Posts: 342	Carolyn, why do you prefer root bound seedlings? Just curious.

May 25, 2014	#6
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	It really looks like herbicide damage to me too. But it doesn't look fatal just yet. If that was my plant I would flush it out really thoroughly, then at the next needed watering, give it some dilute fertilizer,half strength, and go from there. Basically, what Lee suggested. Oh and flush the leaves too, in case it was drift from a neighbor. Maybe it isn't fatal. Marsha

May 25, 2014	#8
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I hope you'll are wrong about herbicide damage. I have the same thing showing up in one bed but it isn't on all the plants. The bed ten feet away has absolutely none of those symptoms. The only difference in the two beds of tomatoes is the bed with some of the plants showing these symptoms were planted two weeks later. The affected plants are not all together either. In one row there might be four or five showing these symptoms scattered among others that look totally normal. The weather has changed drastically in the past week going from warm days and cool nights with a fair amount of rainfall to extremely hot and dry with much hotter nights. I have watered and fertilized all the plants the same and with them all mixed in I just don't see how it could be herbicide damage but I have had herbicide damage before and it does look similar. There has also been a lot of yard service people working around the neighborhood this past week which always gives me the willies. The difference from the past herbicide damage is I am not seeing the weird growth but more a shrinking and narrowing of all the new growth with no color change. I watered everything yesterday so I'll see how the plants look today and may take a few pics if there is no improvement or if there is a worsening of the symptoms. Bill

May 25, 2015	#12
wormgirl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 245	So sorry, SummerSky. I suppose it could be bad potting soil. I think I got some last year. It killed every strawberry plant it touched. You could try saving your rarer varieties and buy others at the store. That way if they recover you still get your Opalkas and stuff. Hedging your bets...