Green House Help

[MrTudball]

Need help on making use of a greenhouse that came with the house we bought a few years ago. I have been an active gardener for the last 15 years or so but my experience of using a greenhouse is non existent. So if you have ideas or maybe a good board for greenhouse's that I can post this too I would appreciate it.


The Greenhouse


The prior owners put quite a bit of money into building this greenhouse. It is approximately 27 x 18 and has lighting and electrical outlets available. There is a water source in the greenhouse, but that would depend on me heating the pool house next to it all winter. Equipment in the greenhouse includes an exhaust fan, two heaters (not working), a grow light and tables on both sides.


The greenhouse is on a concrete base, and the big problem is they built it north of the pool house so sunlight is limited to the south side of the greenhouse and in the mornings during the winter. Not the case in the summer but that does not do me any good.




What I want to do with the greenhouse


I would like to setup tomato plants in containers on the south side to prolong my growing season as long as possible.




Questions


What type of heating would I need to keep this workable through November, or December, or January or February? One of my clients makes sunheat infrared heaters and I was wondering if something like that could keep up in a greenhouse on a below zero type day. (located in nebraska)


When should I plant the greenhouse containers?


What type of variety's would work in the above scenario's?

Any other thoughts you might have

Link to pictures of the greenhouse

https://picasaweb.google.com/1029882...39/GreenHouse#




Mark

[Suze]

Mark, nice greenhouse!

I'm definitely no expert on the subject, and in fact I just got around to putting one in this spring (after giving the possibility nothing more than lip service for several years, lol), so I also have a lot to learn on how to make the most effective use of my greenhouse.

Compact and dwarf plants are a good choice, especially for those areas where there is shelving in place. I'd encourage you to look at some of mdvpc's pictures of his winter dwarves he's posted in the past (do a search on this subforum for his posts) for some ideas and insight as to his setup.

Lettuces and greens are something else to consider for your fall and winter greenhouse growing, especially since they will take a little cold.

Hopefully others will chime in with more ideas, and some answers to your heating questions.

[salix]

Mark, wish I could help you, but my little greenhouse has devolved into a winter storage shed!! I do use it for about a month in the spring to help harden off flats of seedlings, mainly to keep the cold north wind off them.

That is a lovely piece of growing equipment, and it will probably serve you very well. The shady side would work very well for lettuce and other greens, and also for hardening off flats before they can face the full sun. Remember that "outside shade" is still a lot more light than "inside plant lights". You could probably partition off a smaller area for heating and get plants out quite early. I routinely keep forty or fifty flats alive even at -2 C (?~28 F) simply by covering with a piece of Reemay/row cover/frost blanket and the use of a very small/very old electric heater on those nights when frost threatens in May.

Good luck in your search for information, but remember that experimentation is also useful!

[MrTudball]

Suez and salix

thanks for the replies, you learn something new each day, did not know that the tomatoes got more light in the shade then from a grow light. was planning to move my plants outside as soon as they got larger but I might move sooner as soon as I figure out how to not kill them in the greenhouse first.

Originally Posted by salix

Mark, wish I could help you, but my little greenhouse has devolved into a winter storage shed!! I do use it for about a month in the spring to help harden off flats of seedlings, mainly to keep the cold north wind off them.

That is a lovely piece of growing equipment, and it will probably serve you very well. The shady side would work very well for lettuce and other greens, and also for hardening off flats before they can face the full sun. Remember that "outside shade" is still a lot more light than "inside plant lights". You could probably partition off a smaller area for heating and get plants out quite early. I routinely keep forty or fifty flats alive even at -2 C (?~28 F) simply by covering with a piece of Reemay/row cover/frost blanket and the use of a very small/very old electric heater on those nights when frost threatens in May.

Good luck in your search for information, but remember that experimentation is also useful!

[Suze]

Yes, even outdoor shade is very bright compared to grow lights. It sure doesn't seem that way to the eye, eh? That is why the first day I harden off any plants grown under lights they go in shade the first day. I might push them out for 15-30 min or so depending on how sunny that first day is, but that's about it.

Depending upon the composition of the panels in your greenhouse, the UV transmission could be up to 90%. My polycarb panels are about 90% or close, I think.

Some other semi-random thoughts on heat retention that you might find helpful for your fall or winter greenhouse growing. Bubble wrap - in my research over the last couple of years, I've noticed some folks in colder winter climates apply a layer of bubble wrap all along the inside to help retain as much heat as possible. Now, that would not be necessary for me in Texas, but you might find it helpful in your area.

Using containers of water as heat sinks - another tip I've picked up in my greenhouse research. Some use rather large plastic drums which they pick up from ?? (I don't know, Craigslist, etc.), spray paint black, and fill with water. These "sinks" absorb heat during the day, which is then given off at night as radiant heat. Something to start pondering in case you are using something throughout the year where you could begin saving the empty jugs or containers now. Me, I've been holding onto the large clumping cat litter jugs to fill with water and put in my greenhouse during winter.

[Sherry_AK]

I know you're asking about how to keep it warm, but don't forget that it might get too warm in there on a sunny day even when it's pretty chilly outside. If I had anything in my greenhouse right now, I'd want to either be here to monitor temp and open vents if necessary, or turn on the automatic vents.

Your greenhouse looks very nice and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I think you should tear down the pool house!!!

Sherry

[MrTudball]

The greenhouse does have a temp trigger for the exaust fan, I guess that was one of the things I did not know, what temp is to high for the tomatoes. Also when to plant in the containers for a fall/winter harvest. Also should i put the containers on the table, or leave on the cement floor. I feel like the kid going in for his first kiss, excited but completly clueless.

[Paul R]

Infrareds heat objects, not air. Ask your client about it.

Paul R

[mdvpc]

Mark:

I pm'd you the link for my tomatoes that I started in the fall:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=15853

I am in the desert Southwest, so my growing conditions are very different from yours. Sherry is right, your greenhouse may get a lot hotter than you think, even in the winter.

I would get a light meter and see what that tells you about the amount of light you are getting in different areas of the greenhouse. For instance, I planted out a week ago-Some of my containers are up against a tall rock wall-they are not getting any direct light now, but getting an awful lot of reflected light, and are growing very well.

As to temperatures, you should get an indoor/outdoor monitor, that records your highs and lows. I have a heater that I adjust so it keeps the temp no lower that 50 degrees.

Winter greenhouse tomatoes do not have the flavor that high summer ones do. But you should be able to get a jump on the season by pushing your planting day back a lot.

If you want to grow during the winter, Suze's ideas are good-you may want to look at Andrey's lists or varieties he has posted. Also look at Tania's website

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Main_Page

for Russian or Eastern European varieties-they can perform better than a lot during cold weather. Varieties like Kimberly also can do well.

You have a nice, big greenhouse. You might want to also consider growing cutting lettuces, chard, kale, valeriana (mache), carrots, etc.

[Sherry_AK]

Originally Posted by MrTudball

Also should i put the containers on the table, or leave on the cement floor. I feel like the kid going in for his first kiss, excited but completly clueless.

I'd think that in the hotter part of the summer it would be best to place containers directly on the floor. You'd have more head space that way for your taller plants and I think there would be no reason not to have them on the floor. For the cooler parts of your season, though, I'd think the concrete floor might be cooler than you'd prefer, so maybe those fall crops should be on benches. Of course, I have neither a concrete floor in my greenhouse nor the oppoortunity to grow a fall crop, so someone else may have better advice for you!

Good luck!

Sherry

[MrTudball]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I noticed in that thread you use hydroponics for your tomatoes. Is their a reason you went that way instead of a container?

Mark

Originally Posted by mdvpc

Mark:

I pm'd you the link for my tomatoes that I started in the fall:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=15853

I am in the desert Southwest, so my growing conditions are very different from yours. Sherry is right, your greenhouse may get a lot hotter than you think, even in the winter.

I would get a light meter and see what that tells you about the amount of light you are getting in different areas of the greenhouse. For instance, I planted out a week ago-Some of my containers are up against a tall rock wall-they are not getting any direct light now, but getting an awful lot of reflected light, and are growing very well.

As to temperatures, you should get an indoor/outdoor monitor, that records your highs and lows. I have a heater that I adjust so it keeps the temp no lower that 50 degrees.

Winter greenhouse tomatoes do not have the flavor that high summer ones do. But you should be able to get a jump on the season by pushing your planting day back a lot.

If you want to grow during the winter, Suze's ideas are good-you may want to look at Andrey's lists or varieties he has posted. Also look at Tania's website

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Main_Page

for Russian or Eastern European varieties-they can perform better than a lot during cold weather. Varieties like Kimberly also can do well.

You have a nice, big greenhouse. You might want to also consider growing cutting lettuces, chard, kale, valeriana (mache), carrots, etc.

[mdvpc]

Actually, its not true hydro. Those are coir that I have on a drip line. I have an ro unit that feeds into a 65 gallon tank. I then use drips to water/fertilize my containers, but they are not recirculating at all.

I usually use 5 gallon grow bags or pots with potting soil, I just happened to experiment with those coir containers.

[MrTudball]

Thought I would update this thread and again thank all of you for your input.

Moved out the tomato grow tray at about 50 percent germination and put a heat mat under them. Temps outside after that ranged from 29 to 72. Inside ranged anywhere from 44 to 119 (wow forgot to vent on one of those 72 degree days, you guys were not kidding how much heat can accumulate in there). All the other cells germinated (empty cells on pics linked were not planted) after being outside, including cells i seeded after placing out. I also planted flowers for the wife and those are loving life out in the greenhouse also.

I did turn on a little electrical heater on the 29 degree night, but not sure if that would raise the temprature to 45 degrees in the greenhouse. I'm assuming the concrete slab radiated heat from the day.

Going to transplant the tomatoes tonight or tommorow into 4" pots and my earth box. Will be interesting to see how much sooner the earth box produces before the in ground tomatoes. Next year I am definately going to start a month earlier in a few earth box's.

Now the questions

1) I am going to take the one earth box out of the greenhouse in may sometime. As hot as it got at 70 I imagine I would be a regular texas X 2 in there during the summer. Would it be better to start seedlings in july for crops to be grown out thru november or december, or should I just try to clone the existing plants that i start now?

https://picasaweb.google.com/1029882...9/Greenhouse02#

[Fusion_power]

I start fresh seed about the 1st of July for my winter plants. These will be in the greenhouse for just over 6 months from July to January.

Here are a couple of important tips you will need to know. Tomatoes can easily handle temps up to 120 degrees..... but with a huge caveat that they do NOT set fruit above about 92 degrees for most varieties.

Managing the temperature for seedlings can be incredibly important. A seedling will grow rapidly unless it gets too cold at which point it will almost stop growing. Too cold means about 45 degrees. But for seedlings, you can totally reverse the cold temperature effects by letting the temp go up to 120 degrees the next day.

The temperature should not get above 92 degrees for fruit bearing plants because of the pollination problems. So to give some general guidance to your temperature quest, tomatoes in a greenhouse should target temps between 45 and 90 with best growth and production somewhere around 70 degrees. From my experience, I would say that you should keep it above 60 degrees if you are trying to mature fruit.

DarJones

[MrTudball]

Thanks Dar

That was what I was looking for, will be fun learning from experience, but it is always better to avoid problems if possible. I am going to try a couple earthtainers and some cilantro this year and if it works out maybe go all out. What type of containers do you grow with or do you have raised beds in your greenhouse?