Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Forum area for discussing hybridizing tomatoes in technical terms and information pertinent to trait/variety specific long-term (1+ years) growout projects.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 9, 2010   #31
korney19
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
 
korney19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 865
Default

There you go again, teasing us as usual! You need to spill the beans already. Yes, everyone's still interested--BUT people will lose interest the quieter you are!

I'm still interested in finding out more about bi-colors. I also think perhaps a green gene has something to do with them, maybe green fruit or green stripe. I have a cross from a clear skin yellow and a green fruit and think there may be something besides apricot contributing.

I also have a brown that I believe flip-flopped to green, maybe you can tell us more about the common genes between greens/browns (blacks.)

As for your uploading problem, just use ACDSee (I prefer version 5 instead of newer versions) and run a batch resize--select all the files and resize to whatever dimension or percent of original. You can also change the compression ratio at the same time to save on the file size(s.)

Tom, heaven forbid, but I was also just curious if you have a plan in place in case something ever happened to you. What happens to all your work?
korney19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9, 2010   #32
jackdaniel
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northeast USA, Zone 6b
Posts: 94
Default

Tom, you mustn't stop posting about your tomato varieties! You're all but a legend among the cultivar pioneers, from what I've read. You've got a huge reputation to live up to, and we expect you will guide us into the future of the sustainable food movement. Potatoes are a great crop, but nothing brings smiles like a red cherry tomato! Thank you for all your efforts, and we hope you will not give up on us.
__________________
Slow learner through trial and error. Indoor organic (soon to be hydroponic) grower. Small SFG outside. Two acre CSA. Any recommendation for OP dwarf varieties and trades are welcome!
jackdaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9, 2010   #33
Frog
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 141
Default

I understand your lack of time Tom, but I will continue to stalk you around the internet finding time to read what you have time to write.

I'm trying to get my head around how these blue genes fit with bicolour tomatoes. Are we talking green zebra with blue shoulders, or green zebra with coloured stripes that are more photosensitive than other areas?
Frog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 11, 2010   #34
Tom Wagner
Crosstalk™ Forum Moderator
 
Tom Wagner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: 8407 18th Ave West 7-203 Everett, Washington 98204
Posts: 1,157
Default

I don't have the time to do this...but my isolation at times from this fourm needs remedial action.....and some folks want my input for some reason and my response here is assuaging guilt on my part and maybe responding to questions will help me understand myself better...namely ....Parallel play is in play here with all due respect. Lots of puns, however.

Quote:
Parallel play is a form of play where children play adjacent to each other, but in a seemingly solitary manner. An observer will notice that they occasionally notice what the other is doing and then modify their play accordingly.
I am not much out of the Solitary play mode. I am trying to figure out how to advance to Associative Play and perhaps even to Cooperative Play which implies some shared purpose. As an adult I lapse into earlier play scenarios. Such is the nature of a plant breeder whose own childhood is still with him. Slightly Aspie, hard of hearing, works best by himself, likes familiar surroundings and connects to memorization of trivia of such.



Quote:
....As for your uploading problem, just use ACDSee (I prefer version 5 instead of newer versions) and run a batch resize--select all the files and resize to whatever dimension or percent of original. You can also change the compression ratio at the same time to save on the file size(s.)
I googled the ACDSEE and I noted that the newest version is around $60 + , therefore I googled the free versions and downloaded the 8.0 version as it was called older version. I have it somewhere, but not sure where it is...the icon on the screen saver does not link to what I thought it was, and when I read the munu earlier on what it does...I lost the concept of how to put pictures on it...Maybe later.


Quote:
Tom, heaven forbid, but I was also just curious if you have a plan in place in case something ever happened to you. What happens to all your work?
Funny, I don't even have a plan even if nothing happens to me! My work in other breeding projects lies dormant in a storage facility in Bakersfield, CA and can be best said to be in default by attrition. This storage contains a library of documents, books, field journals, jars of old seed such as peas, beans, corn, tomatoes, potatoes, soybeans, wheat.....all part of a 50 some year adventure in plant breeding placed on hold with the exception of some continuance in potato and tomato breeding that extended through the years to my current situation in Washington (state). There is no germination survival of those old units of much accounting.

MOST of the genetic stocks that have been used in research in the US were developed and conserved by public sector universities and federal government
research organizations during the past, however some shift to seed saving groups and hobbyists has occurred in the last 25 years or so . So many of us in the private breeding and the research community have been subject of the 'gradual attrition, and occasional dramatic losses, of these specialized stocks' over the years. So very often.... important genetic resources were dumped before "relocation plans" could be constructed and/or because a "new stock curator" was not available . The push for GMO's have led to additional "abandonment of existing genetic stocks" and I could not be there for that continuance since I am a breeder---not a inventory house of existing stocks---although I do keep a lot of true seed of potatoes and additionally maintain many obscure clones of tomatoes from the late Victor Lambeth tomato collection, for example.

I dropped off many tomato varieties in my tour of Europe last year couple with the message that new varieties of tomatoes do not need to be registered with laws that forbid anyone but registered seed growers and sellers participating. I tried to leave them with the concept that new varieties can and should come from backyards rather than from the top down.

Quote:
You're all but a legend among the cultivar pioneers, from what I've read. You've got a huge reputation to live up to
There seems to be a disconnect between being a pioneer plus holding a reputation of sorts in juxtaposition with futurist and optimist. I know that most folks in Europe "knew" my Green Zebra but did not know about me. When I told people of the new Green Zebras in various breeding lines I taunted them by giving them seed of the new lines. Fifty lines alone in Vienna!

I don't know how many times I tried to use that so-called pioneer/reputation illusion as a resume of sorts to to invite myself into a variety of non-profit or for-profit organizations to pursue further development of plant varieties. It almost appears that it is an Albatross's dilemma!

Quote:
I'm trying to get my head around how these blue genes fit with bicolour tomatoes. Are we talking green zebra with blue shoulders, or green zebra with coloured stripes that are more photosensitive than other areas?
Quote:
You're all but a legend among the cultivar pioneers
The blue genes fitting in with other colors, stripes......is part of my most wide spread venture...especially in Europe....the UK included....and I am hoping the photosensitive areas in juxtaposition with the stripes will find some interesting coordinates. My experience in developing potato berries with blue colors and blue dapples and stripes are part of my template of doing the same in tomatoes. I am hoping the dark green stripes of a Green Zebra mimic the dark green shoulders that fixate the photosensitive areas to turn blue and trace down the fruit with a distinct blue stripe. That in conjunction with various flesh colors and clear/yellow epidermis layers could.... and will open up new vibrant color vistas in tomatoes.

Tom Wagner
Tom Wagner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19, 2016   #35
korney19
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
 
korney19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 865
Default

Wow! Six years & counting!
korney19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19, 2016   #36
korney19
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
 
korney19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry_AK View Post
Another link to the above information in .pdf format.

http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/10/4/305
Is the info in that pdf a little old? Anything incorrect? It said there will never be a dwarf peach, and that's not true, I grew one last season...
korney19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20, 2016   #37
PhilaGardener
Tomatovillian™
 
PhilaGardener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Near Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,504
Default

There are things we now understand better (or not!)

Not everything is a single gene trait; multiple genes can work together to influence an observed phenotype, such as yield or plant shape.

Turning that statement around, genes at different genomic locations can affect the same characteristic, such as fruit color or epidermal hairiness.

Genes for different traits may not be inherited independently (i.e. they may be near to each other on a chromosome and tend to be inherited together). That will skew observed phenotypes from Mendelian ratios.

Those are some of the things that can complicate expectations, but keep genetics interesting
PhilaGardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 28, 2016   #38
korney19
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
 
korney19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wagner View Post
I just off the phone will Roger Cheletat of the Tomato Resources Center here in Davis, California where I am staying at the moment. Unfortunately, he could only take enough time to return my call as he and his associates are busy with field trip preparations.

We talked in some detail about gene expression of (at), a recessive gene called (Apricot) which is noted for having yellow-pink flesh color. We also talked about gf, gs, and gr.

Apparently since they are curators of genes rather than breeders, the information we are seeking is not known offhand by Roger. It also seems that some of the genes I have been using have mutated since the phenotypes are not as the descriptors of those genes delineate.

Bi-colored fruits have been studied in the past, Roger states, but I will have to explore the database more completely before I talk with him again.

The high pigment genes are bouncing around in many of my creations, but I am too rusty right now to explain how I am using the enhanced expression for flesh colors. To give you some idea of the complexity of the subject see these links below.
When I find the time I will try to explain the above research in common language.

Tom Wagner
You dropped 2 big technical paragraphs on us in post #18 that aren't showing up in this post, right above the bold line; if you have more time, could you please translate them?
korney19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 29, 2016   #39
StrongPlant
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Europe/Serbia-Belgrade
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaGardener View Post
Genes for different traits may not be inherited independently (i.e. they may be near to each other on a chromosome and tend to be inherited together). That will skew observed phenotypes from Mendelian ratios.
Can you or anyone answer,is it possible to separate these genes or are they *always* inherited together?
StrongPlant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2016   #40
Darren Abbey
Tomatovillian™
 
Darren Abbey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongPlant View Post
Can you or anyone answer,is it possible to separate these genes or are they *always* inherited together?
The effect is called "genetic linkage" and is caused by pairs of genes being close enough to each other that there is a reduced chance of them being independently inherited. The closer they are, the less likely they are to separate. The further away they are, the more likely they are to separate, up until they show no linkage at all.

Even two halves of the same gene will occasionally be swapped between chromosome pairs and thus get inherited independently. It's all about numbers and statistics.
__________________
http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com

Last edited by Darren Abbey; September 30, 2016 at 04:01 AM.
Darren Abbey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 30, 2016   #41
StrongPlant
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Europe/Serbia-Belgrade
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Abbey View Post
The effect is called "genetic linkage" and is caused by pairs of genes being close enough to each other that there is a reduced chance of them being independently inherited. The closer they are, the less likely they are to separate. The further away they are, the more likely they are to separate, up until they show no linkage at all.

Even two halves of the same gene will occasionally be swapped between chromosome pairs and thus get inherited independently. It's all about numbers and statistics.
Thank you! I guess that's how they improved the corn so much over the last century,breeders just wiped out the bad genes by growing millions of plants.I got the wrong idea that some genes are linked so "hard" that they are always inherited together.
StrongPlant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14, 2016   #42
StrongPlant
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Europe/Serbia-Belgrade
Posts: 151
Default

Does anyone know whether green fruit color in wild-type tomato species is dominant or recessive to red color from cultivated tomato? I could't find any information about the green fruit color dominance patterns in general,so any answers/links would be appreciated!
StrongPlant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14, 2016   #43
joseph
Tomatovillian™
 
joseph's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Cache Valley, N/E of The Great Salt Lake
Posts: 1,217
Default

My experience is that S. habrochaites ripens to white. S. peruvianum and S. corneliomulleri ripen to purple over white.

I have F1 hybrids currently flowering from crosses between domesticated red and black tomatoes and S. habrochaites. I hope to update this thread in a couple months if they produce ripe fruit.

I can document that exerted stigma is recessive, and huge/fused flower petals are dominant. Orange anther cone is also dominant.

Fern-leaf and potato-leaf are recessive to S. habrochaites type leaves.
joseph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15, 2016   #44
korney19
Buffalo-Niagara Tomato TasteFest™ Co-Founder
 
korney19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Niagara Frontier
Posts: 865
Default

Anybody else have problems accessing page 4?
korney19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 15, 2016   #45
LDiane
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 200
Default

Yes. When I am on page 3 and click on 4 or >, page 3 reloads.

When I hover my cursor over 4, it does say that page 4 offers messages 46 to 49.

Odd. Now the message numbers on this page have changed. This was #41, and now it is #45. Maybe I'll be able to access page 4 now .

Last edited by LDiane; October 15, 2016 at 03:41 PM. Reason: message numbers changed
LDiane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:01 AM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2017 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★