Blue DANGER for the tomatoes.

[travis]

I would like to know your opinion on the various Late Blight resistant, F1 hybrid, determinate, red varieties you have grown.

Your experience in terms of vigorous growth, high fruit production, and superior disease resistance is appreciated.

I found Iron Lady to lack vigor in the seedling and transplant stages. Defiant was a bit stronger, but still less vigorous than many of the open pollinated, determinate varieties in the same starter trays, under the same sprouting and early development conditions.

The Mt. Series have been satisfactory in all regards, but a bit low in flavor profile until nearly dead ripe condition, which takes quite a long time to achieve due to their heroic degree of delayed ripening genetics.

[Cole_Robbie]

Gerardo posted on his picture thread pics of the Ten Hung Tan Chieh I sent him, and it looks like it is displaying some antho gene blueness in its skin. I had a Blue Beaty outside the high tunnel next to the THTC, just a few feet away.

I am starting to like blue tomatoes less and less all the time. I am going to grow Fahrenheit Blues for my cherry mix, and couple blue-on-green varieties that are new to me for next year just to try them. But beyond that, I am phasing out the blues.

[Ambiorix]

I test the resistant varieties TO LB to try that blue genes pass by crossing on these varieties and that the genes of resistance cross on variety blue.
All the resistant varieties resisted well in 2015 but the taste is not famous.
I noticed that the taste is better when the blue genes are passed on in other not blue varieties.

As I obtained leaves blue) to Defiant and Plum Regal, I hope that in 2016, I would have resistant tomatoes with the blue.

For 2016, I have just obtained Crimson Crush F1's seeds in Anleterre at Suttons Seeds

I search gardeners to test the seeds 2015 In 2016.

Soon the list of my seeds.

[Ambiorix]

H) The big family of the pineapple at Ambiorix.

1) Introduction.

I am going to show that the fact of making grow up varieties pineapple in the presence of blue varieties and not to protect flowers is dangerous for every generation.

Until 2008 I had no blue varieties.
In 2009, I had only 3 plants of blue OSU.
In 2011, I received from seeds resulting from one of my testers which had made grow up a great deal of the plants of blue tomatoes of seeds coming from my 56 th blue tomato OSU with varieties pineapple.
I obtained my first 11 tomatoes " pineapple blue " in 2011 which increased just next to tomatoes pineapple with regular leaves and with leaves of potatoes.

2) My generations from seeds of pineapple with leaves of potatoes.

I obtained in 2012 tomatoes pineapple with leaves of potatoes.
In 2014, a seed resulting from my reference 2081AB gave me onto the same plant:
a) An orange yellow not corresponding tomato: 4930AB
b) A corresponding tomato: 4929AB
c) A very red not corresponding tomato: 4825AB

In 2015,
a) A seed coming from my reference 4825AB gave me a rather corresponding tomato 5570AB.
b) A seed coming from my reference 4929AB gave me a not corresponding tomato with some red and the yellow: 5835AB.

My management system of my sowing and the follow-ups of my growths by means of many photos always allows me a good location.

In this first studied case, all the obtained plants were in leaves of potatoes.

314 ananas PDT.jpg

3)My generations from seeds of pineapple with regular leaves.

I also had seeds of pineapple with regular leaves.

In 2014,
a) A seed gave a plant with leaves of potatoes in ST192 in compliance with the point of view pineapple. (4551AB)
b) Another seed gave a plant in ST205 who had
1 °) tomatoes with skin red and flesh red with regular leaves. (4695AB)
2 °) a tomato with red skin and blue. (4550AB)

In 2015, a seed of 4695AB gave tomatoes pineapple corresponding and the plant had regular leaves.

315 ananas reg.jpg

4) My generations from seeds of blue pineapple (case 1)

Here, the blue danger causes a big variation of characteristic year by year.
In 2010 took place the fortuitous crossing (OSU56*ananas reg) F1
In 2011, there were 11 tomatoes with yellow and blue skin and yellow flesh as the 10004AB.

2098AB is thus the girl of 1004AB: leaves were regular with the blue color of anthocyanins thus noted "regular antho ".
A plant gave in Italy in 2014 tomatoes to red and blue skin with a red flesh. (4061CT). Leaves were regular.

In 2015, I obtained in GC56 tomatoes with orange red skin without blue and with yellow flesh. (5889AB).Leaves were regular.

5) My generations from seeds of blue pineapple (Case 2)

A plant gave in France to another tester in 2014 tomatoes to orange and blue skin with a yellow flesh. (4061CT). Leaves were regular and had anthocyanins.

In 2015
4061CT gave me yellow and blue red tomatoes with a yellow flesh containing few seeds and some more of red.
The flower of the cluster which gave this tomato had thus been protected the result depends on fortuitous crossing of the previous years.
A tomato from which flowers will have been protected will always be accompanied of one Z if this protection is realized with a bag in organZa.


316 ananas reg antho.jpg

6) My generations from seeds of blue pineapple (Case 3)

To another tester in the South of France, in 2014, he obtained on three different plants three sorts of tomatoes:
a) Red and blue very small tomatoes with 2 or 3 rooms with red flesh looking like the OSU of departure
b) Red and blue rather big tomatoes with red flesh and with many rooms.
c) Tomatoes pineapple corresponding: yellow and blue skin with yellow flesh.

In 2015, I obtained two plants with regular leaves with anthocyanins but with little blue (5829AB ) or not (5502AB )on the skin.


317 ananas reg antho.jpg

7)My generations from seeds of blue pineapple (Case 4)

This case results from descendants of 1008AB, a sister of 1004AB who gave at another French tester 3008 / 3009SP.

All the tomatoes were in red skin and with many blue with a red flesh with
a) Regular leaves and anthocyanins: 4066PX
b) Leaves)of potatoes and anthocyanins on leaves: 4056PX and 4072PX.

In 2015 4072PX gave two plants with leaves of potatoes and big red tomatoes of good taste.

There is thus a corresponding and flavourful tomato with a bag organza (5931AB) and one other one without organza (5868AB) on the same plant and on another plant (5921AB).


318 ananas potatoes antho.jpg

8)My generations from seeds of blue pineapple (Case 5)

2098AB also gave a plant with leaves of potato but without anthocyanins onto leaves and little on the skin: 4061PX.

In 2015,
4061PX gave
a) A very particular tomato (5833AB): Leaves of potato without anthocyanins on the skin and the leaves.
b) A red and blue tomato (5520AB): regular leaves and antho.


319 ananas potatoes no antho.jpg

Thus if flowers of pineapple do not grown up far from a variety of the same family without being protected you will never obtain pineapple of such a kind in compliance with a color, with a given leaf, with a given thickness.
Protect thus the flowers of the tomatoes seeds of which you will harvest for the next year.

[carolyn137]

For 2016, I have just obtained Crimson Crush F1's seeds in Anleterre at Suttons Seeds

I search gardeners to test the seeds 2015 In 2016.

&&&&&&&&&
I can tell you more than you really want to know about Crimson Crush F1

A person at another message site was sending out saved seeds for anyone who ordered varieties from him, as free seeds.

I'd never heardof that variety so Googled, and found out that it was an F1 and he was sending out F2 seeds telling them it was wonderful.

Genetic segregation? He never said a thing about it. He is from the UK and the only way to get the F1 was to buy 3 plugs ( plants) which is what he did, but never said so until I challenged him with the truth and he never responded. I could say he lied, he did, but it would be more gracious if I said he didn't tell the truth

Sutton's was making all sorts of claims for it as to almost total Late Blight resistance, and then I found a link to what the breeder of the variety said about that and here it is,

http://www.hortweek.com/suttons-defe...rticle/1336697

Carolyn

[Ambiorix]

I buy the seeds here :

http://www.suttons.co.uk/Gardening/V...ush_182440.htm

I test the seeds in 2016.

But i have tested in 2015 very much variety resistant to LB.

Thus i have very much seeds to test in 2016.

I search gardeners to test F2 of all varieties of my resistant to LB.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Ambiorix

I buy the seeds here :

http://www.suttons.co.uk/Gardening/V...ush_182440.htm

I test the seeds in 2016.

But i have tested in 2015 very much variety resistant to LB.

Thus i have very much seeds to test in 2016.

I search gardeners to test F2 of all varieties of my resistant to LB.

And now I do remember that one of the many links I had about this variety did say that Sutton's would sell the F1 seeds soon.

But that other person I referred to bought the plants since no F1 seeds were available at the time.

I had been sent seeds by Dr. Randy Gardner, who bred Mt Magic,PLum Regal and Smarty, all F1 hybrids, and I know that quite a few folks used Plum Regal in their breeding projects b'c of the LB and other tolerance genes that it has.

I had made a special seed offer here at Tville for all three after I got the seeds from Randy, I didn't ask him for them, he just sent them/

Carolyn

[travis]

One must be very careful when using certain late blight resistant, F1, plum saladettes from NCSU's breeding program in their own, private breeding experiments.

Several, if not all, of The NCSU's late blight resistant plum saladettes, Plum Regal included, carry the ms-10/aa linked, male sterility genetics, which will carry over into the progeny at a 25% rate.

[Ambiorix]

I)Some treasures

320 Coeur de boeuf blanc.jpg

321 Coeur de boeuf blanc 2.jpg

322 shah.jpg

323 Brandywine yellow.jpg

324 Megabricot.jpg

325 Bronze Olive.jpg

326 Cherokee purple.jpg

327 Copia.jpg

328 Pride of Flanders Woolly.jpg

329 Pride of Flanders No Woolly.jpg

330 Hertog Jan.jpg

331 Hertog Jan 15.jpg

332 Mangue Bleue.jpg

333 Yamali Little Green.jpg

334 Blue Green Zebra.jpg

335 P20green Zebra.jpg

336 P20 beauty King F7.jpg

337 P20 great white F6.jpg

338 P20 beauty King F6.jpg

339 P20 beauty King F7.jpg

340 P20 Zebra HeartF6.jpg

341 YCHC.jpg

342 indigo Kumquat.jpg

343 indigo Comme Quoi.jpg

344 fin.jpg

All the photos have to make reflect.
If you make grow up not blue and blue varieties together without protecting certain flowers, you would never obtain corresponding tomatoes and you will never manage to stabilize your varieties.

Pay attention also on varieties as journey and cherokee purple which have the pistil which is more big than stamens.
The climate change can stress the phenomenon year by year.

As you see it, I have a great deal of varieties to be stabilized, each you can help me to stabilize all these varieties just by protecting some flowers of some plants if you ask me for some seeds.

You will have to follow a protocol according to your particular factors (separate greenhouse, distant greenhouse, no greenhouse, etc.)
You have to send me an e-mail address by MP if it interests you.

Seeds are free but you have to make photos for all the stadiums of growth of seeds and plants and send them to me or tell me where you install them.
Like that thanks to photos, I can follow your progress.
You will owe send me the seeds of two tomatoes by plant at the end of the year on 2016.

You will receive your seeds by bulking of sendings according to the destination.
He can have testers there which work unprotected: it will be for me a reference point.

Soon you will have the list of all the available seeds and then the list of all the tests: simples and of the most complex and the tests of conformity of tomato.

[Gerardo]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

And now I do remember that one of the many links I had about this variety did say that Sutton's would sell the F1 seeds soon.

But that other person I referred to bought the plants since no F1 seeds were available at the time.

I had been sent seeds by Dr. Randy Gardner, who bred Mt Magic,PLum Regal and Smarty, all F1 hybrids, and I know that quite a few folks used Plum Regal in their breeding projects b'c of the LB and other tolerance genes that it has.

I had made a special seed offer here at Tville for all three after I got the seeds from Randy, I didn't ask him for them, he just sent them/

Carolyn

Dr. Gardner's secretary strikes again!!!!

[Ambiorix]

J) Presentation of the tests of Ambiorix.

1) Introduction.

I have 40 years of culture of the tomato for amateur.
I have am a chemist having worked in the research in industrial chemistry.

I propose tests on my seeds since 2009 when I obtained seeds of OSU Blue and when I suggested testing seeds of my 100 blue tomatoes obtained on 3 plants.
By means of my testers, I followed the generations of several of my crossings and other crossings of the other people.

By working to several and by exchanging the results, we progressed well until 2015.
It is thanks to this team spirit that we discovered the consequences of the blue danger.
I have now at my disposal a large number of seeds which wait to be tested by numerous testers.

Each is capable of realizing these tests and to follow a general protocol for all the tests and a particular protocol for every test.
Every seed was sowed, every plant asks for a big attention during all its growth.

The only way to make me participate in the growth of every plant is to take photos at every stage.
I have a whole management system of these photos for every plant, every variety, every tester which allows me then to draw from conclusions according to my essays and to those of my testers.

It asks for a meticulous follow-up for each for every plant, you should choose while the quantity of plants that we are capable of following a whole season.
Every test bears a specific name according to the purpose to be obtained.

You can choose several different tests but you go to increase the amount of work to be made.
The purpose of any test is to collect ONE tomato which has specificities looked for this test and to recover ALL THE SEEDS of this tomato.
The seeds of every tomato receive a specific number which will correspond to all the photos taken for the seed, the plant and the tomato.

All the seeds with its specific number must be sent to me with all other seeds of the other tomatoes of the same test and the other tests for the end of 2016.
You cannot thus distribute seeds coming from my tests.

But if I choose that these seeds must be tested in 2017, you will receive seeds to realize this test.

If the test 2017 gives again a tomato in compliance with the criteria, you will become "a GUARD" of this variety and persons in charge of the tests 2018 of this variety.

My purpose is to have " CURATORS OF VARIETIES OF TOMATOES " in the world for varieties corresponding and exempt from blue genes and Blue Tomatoes very stable.

I try to obtain beautiful, delicious tomatoes, corresponding in certain criteria.
It will be necessary to follow carefully my instructions and you will then be rewarded for your efforts.

Thus here is the list of all the possible tests: of the simplest in the most complex.

Every test is accompanied with a list of seeds

2) The general conditions of the tests.

1 °) There are four categories of testers: ( several possible choices)

A) Outdoor
B) In tunnel (Give the number)
C) In greenhouse (Give the number)
D) Under shelter (Give the number)

2 °) There are four methods of protection of the flowers of tomatoes:

A) Protected flowers
B) Flowers protected in cluster
C) Flowers of the plant protected entirely
D) Flowers forbidden any insect in the shelter

3 °) There are three different situations:

0) Any blue tomato presents.
1) The present blue tomatoes are protected.
2) The present blue tomatoes are no protected.

4 °) It is necessary to realize a small plan of the situation of the places of the tests.
A) With the situation of the North
B) Indicate if the ground is flat or sloping
C) Indicate if plants receive the morning sun at the middle-day either in the evening or all day long.
D) Very important: indicate places in the shade or in twilight.

For example: the side is of my greenhouse receives very early the sunlight and the leaves of the blue varieties react more hardly to this phenomenon.

5 °) I have to know the conditions of temperatures, light received from the sowing and the place where it comes true.
Also for the place of transplanting for the young plants.

6 °) a ) photos must be rather close known subject photographed especially for cotyledons for example: details must be perceptible.
b) The subject does not have to be right in the sun: no reflection
c) The skin and the flesh of tomatoes must be very visible and the photo realized outside in the shade and not inside the house.


3) List of the photos to be realized for every sowing.

a) Every sowing receives a number of sowing:
1AB, 2AB, 3AB etc.
I attribute(award) two letters to every tester to symbolize him.

b) Labels are realized with the number of the sowing, the reference of the sowed seed, the exact name of the variety and the kind of leaves.
example:1AB 5860AB Shah Potatoes.

Every label is stuck on a jar of yoghurt having a hole in the center.
And a label will be installed at the place of plantation.
A seed and the only one will be sowed in this jar.
Every photo is always preceded by the photo of the label.
On every photo, there should be the date of the grip of the photo.

c) Photo 1: cotyledons
d) Photo 2: the bottom of cotyledons
e)Photo 3 and 4: the first leaves and the bottom of these.
f) Photo 5: the stalk of the plant
g) Photo 6: the plant ready
h) Photo 7: a leaf of the plant
i) Photo 8: not open button of flower
j) Photo 9: the well opened flower
k) Photo 10: sepals and young tomato
l) Photo 11: the not ripe tomato
m) Photo 12: the mature tomato on the plant
n) Photo 13: pressed on a balance
o) Photo 14: the tomato of face
p) Photo 15: the tomato of the top with peduncle and sepals
q) Photo 16: the tomato of the bottom with the navel
r) Photo 17: the tomato without (so necessary) skin
s) Photo 18: transversal section
t) Photo 19: longitudinal section
u) Photo 20: plant of several tomatoes
v) Photo 21: an specific leaf.


4) A) Test of conformity of white monochrome tomatoes.

A) A tomato will be in accordance if:
a) The color is white uniform pulling with a little at the yellow in the maturity.
b) She is not deformed
c) Her flowers were protected because she grew up near blue tomatoes.
d) she contains no other color on the skin and in the flesh. (In this case she will receive another name and will always owe given by tomatoes looking like this conformity)

B) List of the available seeds.
Each can study the conformity of its white variety which he cultivates every year.
If I receive the seeds of a white variety and photos, I could establish an electronic ID card of this variety and create a database of all the studied tomatoes.

5) A) Test of conformity of the other monochrome tomatoes.

The tests 2 - 8 are made in the same spirit as the test 1.

The test of conformity is also very important for the kind of leaves as for the color of skin and of some flesh.
All the tomatoes OP can give tomatoes with blue spots and will not thus be in accordance. But thanks to this character, they can be classified in another test in 2017.

B) Remarks:
Each can choose to realize a test of conformity for a monochrome variety of its choice.
I look for a way to compare tomatoes between them which is a little out of the ordinary.
I think of having found this way and I would at first want to establish a database of photos on several varieties.

I would also want to make sensitive most people possible for the observation of the growth of their plants of tomatoes.
Now thanks to our digital cameras, we are capable of crystallizing important moments of the life of a tomato since the seeding of seeds until the final cut of a tomato.

The comparison of its crucial moments can bring us to list them better and especially better to know the secrets of these varieties.
More and more varieties of tomatoes are especially created since the appearance of the blue color.
There are more and more different tomatoes which bear the same name, there are more and more tomatoes which are a like. Every creator has for example his favorite yellow tomato.

What I propose it is a technical means to quantify this color, it is a technical means to compare these tomatoes of the same color.
For that purpose, I need a certain quantity of photos, personal observations of the growth of this variety in different conditions. That's what I propose you at first for tomatoes of a single color to refine well the method.
Furthermore, this method of observation will allow us can be to know the indications of the presence of blue genes in these varieties if we have photos of the growth of a bad-mannered pure variety recessive blue.

This photographic observation can be made on little plant thus on little space: three seeds are sufficient (self-important) at first if we manage to obtain a corresponding tomato on a plant.
This work can be made at the same time on other more colored varieties which are going to follow.

6) Every test has a number.

You can already indicate me that it interests you in a personnel message.
Already give me the wanted information and especially the total number of plants which you can follow.
I propose 750 different seeds of blue or not blue tomatoes.
To reserve seeds, you can give also the numbers of REF. (example 2098AB)
You will receive 5 seeds of the same number to obtain at least 3 plants.
You can already choose the number (s) of tests for which you wish.
Then, there will be a file word with the number of available seeds for every reference number.
I always keep 10 seeds of every reference.
Thus, at the certain moment, certain references will be thus unavailable.
Seen the number of photos asked for every seed, every tester can receive that 25 seeds all in all distributed on several tests.
You will receive 5 seeds to make 3 tests. Thus (You have 2 seeds in reserve if a seed or the other one does not form).

Please indicate me if you want to obtain the list word, pdf or in Web reading at an e-mail address.

All the varieties will be grouped by test, by name of variety and by reference number to facilitate the choice.
I can also advise you certain varieties to make out a will if you give me the kinds of tomatoes which you prefer. (Color, shape, the height of the plant).
You will have surprises if you trust me.
You will always receive the photos of the tomatoes seeds of which you will test.
Most of the photos were published.
All the management system of the follow-up will be later explained.

Test in english.pdf

[Ambiorix]

I have now a complete list of my seeds in an Excel file. You can receive this file at an e-mail address.

You will choose from 1 to 5 lots of 5 seeds of a given reference.

You will have to follow a protocol planned for every chosen lot.

You can choose according to photos seen in this comment.

I can send all the lots chosen for a country at an address given for the country.

Every person will have to send an envelope containing a stamped envelope with its address to the receiving person.

The receiving person will have only to put lots asked in every envelope and to post them in its country


Who wants to be the person receiving of the envelopes?

Who wants to help me to realize many tests, to discover many flavourful tomatoes, to show that the blue danger threatens us?

For it is necessary to realize many photos during the growth of tomatoes and observe the appearance of the blue.

[Ambiorix]

Choice of the tests


If you are indifferent of the blue danger, If you agree or not, it has no importance.

If certain cultivated varieties are not in accordance with your wait, that can incite you to think that those who sent you these seeds are not serious, it is perhaps because these people do not protect certain flowers of their tomatoes.

If certain varieties are unstable, it is because certain sellers or exchangers of seeds sell or exchange varieties which are not stabilized yet.
To change this state of things, it is necessary to finalize a system of comparison of the varieties between them.

This system can allow us to compare two varieties of rather similar tomatoes. These similar varieties exist under various names in all the languages.
Take all the example of the varieties of tomatoes of yellow skin with yellow flesh: how much there is in the world?
And blue and yellow tomatoes with yellow flesh?

This method I have it but for it I need many photos many examples to see really if my system is valid.


Since 2009, several people helped me to test varieties of different tomatoes. It is thanks to my testers that I discovered the blue danger.

If each tests a single reference of my seeds by growing least 3 plants and take photos during the growth of these tomatoes, I would have a valid database of all the varieties of existing tomatoes in the world.

If each protects certain clusters of flowers, I would have photos of corresponding varieties.

For that purpose, it is enough to follow a protocol finalized with my testers.

Each can make it also with one of the varieties idols.
But for it each has to tell me which variety he is going to follow, he is going to study and to photograph all the moments of growth.

Here is the list of my seeds in French and in English in which, you can choose 5 different references at the most.
You will receive 5 seeds by reference.

It is necessary to manage all the photos obviously but this system will be later given to you.

There is thus a number of photos to be realized and there are all the more photos to realize that there is of references.

Send a Personnel message if it interests you.

As you go to see it in the list, every tester receives a number according to its country.


If you give me your e-mail address, I could send you the file containing my list of seeds.

[Dutch]

Hi Ambiorix,
Thank you for documenting and sharing so much information on blue tomatoes. I have grown many of the blue tomatoes distributed by Tom Wagner. And as you have discovered growing out Shadow Boxing, I too have found it full of surprises.
I find the pictures of your P20 x Great White very interesting. This past summer I pollinated a White Queen with pollen from Shadow Boxing that was bearing quite dark and almost tennis ball size fruit (pictures in photo section of SB). I will be growing out plant from this cross this summer.
I choose White Queen because per Carolyn Male in her book '100 Heirloom Tomatoes for the American Garden' on page 234 under the page title White Queen, "White Queen is as close to a pure white tomato as you'll find."
Again thank you Ambiorix and thank you too Carolyn.
Dutch

[Ambiorix]

If you suspect in 2016 a variety of being infested with blue genes, you can take photos during the growth by asking me for the protocol for realize all these photos.

It begins with a photo of the top and the bottom of the well developed cotyledons.