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Old October 15, 2013   #1
KarenO
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Well, I fooled around quite a bit this summer with trying to make an intentional cross of my own just for the learning experience mainly. I tried a number of combinations over the season and had a couple of interesting ones that "took". My Captain lucky plants were very good at giving pollen when they felt like it and sometimes, instead of a dusting of pollen on my lens there would be little "piles" of it and I think that is why the two successful ones were from CL pollen. I crossed it with the red beefsteak "delicious" and also with a pink heart called Ludmilla's pink heart. I saved and fermented seeds from those fruits and now have a couple hundered F1 seeds from each.
Now what? stupid question, I know but I am wondering what you experts might expect from the F1 of those two combinations. Regular leaf for sure I think but what other characteristics would you surmise the F1 fruits to have. what is dominant as far as shape or color when the pollen source is an odd tri color like captain lucky?
I plan to grow them out next year to find out but I was wondering if you guys would have a guess as to what you think I might find when I do.
Thanks,
KarenO
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Old October 15, 2013   #2
Doug9345
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I'm just starting to get into Tomato crosses so my guess is based on my reading. I'm making it mostly to see if I'm beginning to get a handle on a very small part of it. I think its going to be a pink or maybe red flattened fruit. Medium in size and late midseason in maturity. The F2s should be really interesting. It's too ad that you don't have some place inside where you could grow one of the F1s out so that you had F2 seed for next year.
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Old October 15, 2013   #3
KarenO
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hmm.. I wonder if I could grow one of each under lights over winter. It wouldn't have to be a great plant or a nice looking tomato, as long as it has seeds in it DNA is DNA isn't it?... Doug you are giving me ideas!
KO
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Old October 15, 2013   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenO View Post
Well, I fooled around quite a bit this summer with trying to make an intentional cross of my own just for the learning experience mainly. I tried a number of combinations over the season and had a couple of interesting ones that "took". My Captain lucky plants were very good at giving pollen when they felt like it and sometimes, instead of a dusting of pollen on my lens there would be little "piles" of it and I think that is why the two successful ones were from CL pollen. I crossed it with the red beefsteak "delicious" and also with a pink heart called Ludmilla's pink heart. I saved and fermented seeds from those fruits and now have a couple hundered F1 seeds from each.
Now what? stupid question, I know but I am wondering what you experts might expect from the F1 of those two combinations. Regular leaf for sure I think but what other characteristics would you surmise the F1 fruits to have. what is dominant as far as shape or color when the pollen source is an odd tri color like captain lucky?
I plan to grow them out next year to find out but I was wondering if you guys would have a guess as to what you think I might find when I do.
Thanks,
KarenO
Karen, I know very well the two varieties you crossed with Captain Lucky pollen, but I don't know the genetics of any quad colored ones such as Captain Lucky, so no way am I going to venture a guess.

You have what's called two wide crosses since the parents are so different in each cross b'c of the CL.

But it should be interesting to save seeds from those two crosses, the F1 fruits, and see what you get and then make some selections for further growouts..

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Old October 15, 2013   #5
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I've had good success with a 26w CFL in a brooder lamp. I use the brooder lamp because it's much better built than a utility lamp and not much more expensive. They usually don't have switches on them.
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Old October 16, 2013   #6
KarenO
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thank you Doug and Carolyn for your answers! next question, once I have F2 seed, how many to grow out of those to get a good idea of whether there is something worth selecting and trying to stabilize going forward. As many as I have room for?
KO

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Old October 16, 2013   #7
Darren Abbey
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next question, once I have F2 seed, how many to grow out of those to get a good idea of whether there is something worth selecting and trying to stabilize going forward. As many as I have room for?
KO
Generally, as many as you have room for.

This year I grew a bunch of "Tiny Tim" from seed and one turned out to be a cross from something else I grew last year. In the F2s, there will be something like 1:16 that have both dwarfing traits of the TT grandparent. I want to have a bunch of micro plants in order to select for flavor or color... so I will need to grow many more than 16 seeds.

Fortunately, I can screen for dwarf/micro plants in the seedling stage and so I only have to grow up those rare few that have the right size. This is my gardening project for this winter.
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Old October 16, 2013   #8
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Karen,

I couldn't guess what you'd get with your crosses. But with a few hundred seeds of each, the Experimental category in the Mostly Mystery 'Mater Mailing is calling your name. Just turn, and cup your ear to the south.

Gary
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Old October 16, 2013   #9
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thank you Doug and Carolyn for your answers! next question, once I have F2 seed, how many to grow out of those to get a good idea of whether there is something worth selecting and trying to stabilize going forward. As many as I have room for?
KO
Yes, sd Darren jut said, as many as you have room for. And that can be a problem.

I remember when Tad Smith sent me a three way cross and told me I had a 1/64 chance of what he described to me so Iput out 12 plants and bingo, one of them was IT.

I love statistics.

The BINGO turned out to be what I named Tad, and I sent seeds to Craig L and Tad crossed with brandywine in his garden which led to Little Lucky, Lucky Cross and all the other varieties that came out of that initial accidental cross pollination. Only two folks have seeds for Tad; Craig and myself, and that's the way it's going to be.

And don't forget that if you make a selection from those F2 plants that when you save the F3 seeds from those fruits, you have to select again, and again, and that's just with the one selection.

Make two or three selections and you'll be in deep trouble with room to grow enough plants.

And with Captain Lucky being the male parent I do think you'll get a LOT of genetic segregation with the F2 plants as well as with any other selections you make/

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Old October 16, 2013   #10
KarenO
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well I guess I will never have to fuss with emasculating blossoms and collecting pollen again. Just these two crosses should keep me busy for the rest of my life and I will need to buy a farm by the sounds of it. haha!
Perhaps I will start with looking for potato leaf seedlings in the F2 as that is something I can see right away and that will narrow it down as I am hoping "my" tomato will be PL. 2015 and beyond it looks like I know what my garden will consist of: all my oddball "babies" and their random genetics. I am looking forward more than ever to see what comes of my little experiment in crossing tomatoes up here. I just want one good and unique one I can say is really "mine".
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Old October 17, 2013   #11
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2015 and beyond it looks like I know what my garden will consist of: all my oddball "babies" and their random genetics.
Keep good records and you'll pretty quick get a feel for the traits that are segregating. Eventually you may decide you want to play with traits that aren't segregating in this population... and by this point, you're hooked on genetics. There's no going back. You've been warned.

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I just want one good and unique one I can say is really "mine".
That is a very good motivation.
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Old October 17, 2013   #12
KarenO
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Thanks for the encouragement and I have a feeling this is really going to capture my interest because of the unknowns and the potential to maybe find something interesting in the genetic soup of these crosses. I will consider myself duly warned Darren
KO
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Old October 17, 2013   #13
Doug9345
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Soon you'll be eying overgrown lots or fields, wondering if they'd let you plant tomatoes there.
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Old October 17, 2013   #14
KarenO
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Soon you'll be eying overgrown lots or fields, wondering if they'd let you plant tomatoes there.
haha! maybe so... but there are worse things I could be than a little tomato-crazy and I feel that I am in good company here
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Old October 17, 2013   #15
KarenO
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well Doug, you may have created a monster. I had not considered trying to grow a full size tomato indoors in winter up here but I decided that I have nothing to lose by trying and a whole year head start to gain if I can get some F2 seed from this little experiment to plant in spring. I will give it a go. Thanks for the suggestion.
KO
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