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Old August 10, 2012   #31
dice
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I once crossed Moravsky Div with Huge Black. I got six seeds
out of the crossed fruit. Looking at them in the fermenting
margarine container, I decided that there was not enough juice.
Rather than add water and sugar, I decided that, "Hey, I can just
use one of these zillion Csikös Bötermö fruits that I have, cut it up
in a strainer, and let the juice drain into the Moravsky Div x
Huge Black seeds."

As I was doing that, I started to think about something else, and
I forgot to use the strainer. Suddenly I looked down and noticed
that I had the seeds of both fruits together in the fermenting
container. Dang.

So I have these six seeds of an F1 cross mixed up with 30 or
more seeds of an OP indeterminate or semi-determinate,
both RL. I have so far not been willing to use up 30 or more
tomato spots in one year to find them. (2 Csikös Bötermö plants
is plenty for one year; they have mild, sweet flavor and produce
like a cherry tomato.)
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Old August 10, 2012   #32
bower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dice View Post
I once crossed Moravsky Div with Huge Black. I got six seeds
out of the crossed fruit. Looking at them in the fermenting
margarine container, I decided that there was not enough juice.
Rather than add water and sugar, I decided that, "Hey, I can just
use one of these zillion Csikös Bötermö fruits that I have, cut it up
in a strainer, and let the juice drain into the Moravsky Div x
Huge Black seeds."

As I was doing that, I started to think about something else, and
I forgot to use the strainer. Suddenly I looked down and noticed
that I had the seeds of both fruits together in the fermenting
container. Dang.

So I have these six seeds of an F1 cross mixed up with 30 or
more seeds of an OP indeterminate or semi-determinate,
both RL. I have so far not been willing to use up 30 or more
tomato spots in one year to find them. (2 Csikös Bötermö plants
is plenty for one year; they have mild, sweet flavor and produce
like a cherry tomato.)
Argh!! I guess they'll turn up eventually! It sounds like an interesting cross, so please let us know.
I like to use a knife to pick out the seeds as I'm squeezing the fruit. I'm just paranoid enough to go rinse the knife (which I can see has no seeds on it!) before doing the second F1, just to be sure I didn't mix them...
Six seeds is not many to get. One of my Fiaschetto crosses was a very small fruit too, with just a few seeds, so I was glad that there was a second fruit.

I must say, my MDiv has been shut down by the heat and has just a few fruit left on it. Stupice and Oaxacan Jewel are the only ones that set any fruit during the last month. The growth habit and overall healthiness and productivity of Stupice is fantastic, and it's too bad it is not as tasty as MDiv.....
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Old August 11, 2012   #33
dice
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I read some years ago about someone growing Stupice plants
in extreme conditions somewhere in Nevada. Apparently they
can take the summer heat rather well, because that is what
they were dealing with: high enough elevation to have late frosts
and a short season, but blistering heat while it lasts.
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Old August 11, 2012   #34
bower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dice View Post
I read some years ago about someone growing Stupice plants
in extreme conditions somewhere in Nevada. Apparently they
can take the summer heat rather well, because that is what
they were dealing with: high enough elevation to have late frosts
and a short season, but blistering heat while it lasts.
That doesn't surprise me, after seeing it this summer. The other outstanding plant for overall health and productivity in adverse conditions this year is Oaxacan Jewel PL. I haven't seen it produce in cold weather, since we haven't had any, but it stayed healthy during the cold treatment this spring and right through the extreme heat and humidity of the season. It's later than Stupice, but tasty and pretty as well... and definitely good breeding material for overall healthiness and low maintenance.
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Old June 8, 2013   #35
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I'm a definite newbie, having only gardened for three years or so, but I'll admit I was surprised that stupice was your choice for a more manageable growth habit. It was a sprawling monstrosity in my garden last summer, growing to at least 8 feet and suckering at 2-3 times the rate of the rest of my plants.

But I do love the dark chocolate tomatoes so I"ll be curious how your crosses turn out. I'm starting to get the itch to do some crossing myself, but I dont really have the room for a proper grow out, as I can only handle 7 plants in my garden.
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Old June 9, 2013   #36
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I'm a definite newbie, having only gardened for three years or so, but I'll admit I was surprised that stupice was your choice for a more manageable growth habit. It was a sprawling monstrosity in my garden last summer, growing to at least 8 feet and suckering at 2-3 times the rate of the rest of my plants.

But I do love the dark chocolate tomatoes so I"ll be curious how your crosses turn out. I'm starting to get the itch to do some crossing myself, but I dont really have the room for a proper grow out, as I can only handle 7 plants in my garden.
I have space limitations - small greenhouse - so not easy to accomodate Black Cherry's big sprawling vines and long lengths of vine between fruit clusters. It's a question of number of fruit clusters per yardage of monstrous plant! I liked Stupice growth habit because I got full clusters all the way up the plant, starting a foot from the ground and repeating every foot or so - it's more like two ft. between clusters for Black Cherry.
My attempt to grow the F1's indoors over winter was a failure - a badly timed mite resurgence on my citrus trees also spread to the F1 plants, just when I was getting new tomato and pepper seedlings started... citrus, F1's and all were chucked to put a stop to that infestation cycle. I meant to start them again later, but was overwhelmed with too many plants in the house.
DKelly grew the F1 in Hawaii this winter though, and I have F2 seeds from the Black Cherry X Fiaschetto from him . It's just a bit too late to start them for this year though.... hopefully next year will be the one for some F2's.
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Old June 11, 2013   #37
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"No room at the inn this year." (A chronic tomato crossing problem for the
home grower.)
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Old June 11, 2013   #38
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Quote:
but I'll admit I was surprised that stupice was your choice for a more manageable growth habit. It was a sprawling monstrosity in my garden last summer, growing to at least 8 feet and suckering at 2-3 times the rate of the rest of my plants.
You must have had a super Stupice or crossed seeds! I've never had a Stupice go much over 4-5 feet tops, and 3 ft is common. Granted, it doesn't get prime space or attention, since I save that for the large, later indets. Tania's Dbase lists it at around 4 ft.
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Old June 11, 2013   #39
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[QUOTE=dice;355219]"No room at the inn this year." (A chronic tomato crossing problem for the
home grower.)[/QUOTE
eh. I swear I'm ready to huck half the plants in my greenhouse right now, just to get a feeling of SPACE.

Thanks to swaps and generosity here at T'ville I am trialing all new varieties this year (except Oaxacan Jewel I want to breed and Stupice as a 'clock') and especially, a bunch of cold tolerant ones, to see if we can't find genetic material for tomatoes that can be grown outdoors here. Space problem would thereby be solved! That project took priority over my BC crosses, for the mo.
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Old June 11, 2013   #40
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Originally Posted by ddsack View Post
You must have had a super Stupice or crossed seeds! I've never had a Stupice go much over 4-5 feet tops, and 3 ft is common. Granted, it doesn't get prime space or attention, since I save that for the large, later indets. Tania's Dbase lists it at around 4 ft.
ddsack, my Stupice was the same as described - really vigorous, freely suckering, bushy and healthy (and loaded with fruit from top to bottom) and would easily have grown to 8 ft or more if I didn't top it. If you want to try my seeds, PM and I'll send you some to compare. Maybe it just performs differently on different soils, but they do say Moravsky Div is a strain of Stupice, and it was quite different, suckering much more slowly and sparely and growing more slowly overall (but still loaded with fruit).
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Old June 12, 2013   #41
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ddsack, my Stupice was the same as described - really vigorous, freely suckering, bushy and healthy (and loaded with fruit from top to bottom) and would easily have grown to 8 ft or more if I didn't top it. If you want to try my seeds, PM and I'll send you some to compare. Maybe it just performs differently on different soils, but they do say Moravsky Div is a strain of Stupice, and it was quite different, suckering much more slowly and sparely and growing more slowly overall (but still loaded with fruit).
I'm also glad to provide saved seed from my [Franken]Stupice. People on here have been very generous with me and I'm glad to pay it forward. I certainly have no special growing ability, tending more towards black thumb than green thumb. In terms of cultivation my raised beds are 50% municipal compost (primarily leaves) and 50% store bought veg garden soil. My soil analysis from last fall found the soil to be very high in just about everything, so perhaps the very high N accounts for the excessive vegetative growth? I throw in some tomato tone when I plant them and if I remember they get some more scratched into the surface around fruiting. I have a drop irrigation hose laid that I turn on whenever it seems really hot, the ground really dry, and I remember to do so.

If someone has a stumpy 4' version of stupice and they want to swap seeds with me and both do a comparison grow out next year to see if it is environmental or genetic, I'd be game.
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Old June 12, 2013   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dice View Post
I got some of these tags from Earthstar when I was ordering
something else anyway:
http://www.earthstarproducts.com/Hyb...Tags_c_17.html
Went to Earth Star's web site (the original extended link doesn't work anymore) and found this notice on the home page:

Notice: We are planning on closing the business when our
inventory is gone. We will not be replacing sold-out items.

I thought if this site was popular others might want to know.
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Old June 13, 2013   #43
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Stupice is a great tomato in cold places like Newfoundland and the mountains of Idaho (my zone 4 home). Look for the biggest blossom's for easier emasculation (and try using the tip of an exacto knife, works really well) If you like Stupice, you should try Jeff Casey's Maya and Sion's Airdrie Classic, it's a stable, great tasting, productive, early selection of Stupice x Suddith Brandywine. I've got a lot of breeding lines in F1 and F2 involving it as well as Stupice.
The lines are:

Stupice x Red Brandywine F2
Stupice x Purple Dog Creek F1
(Stupice x Red Brandywine)F1 x Amazon Chocolate F1
(Stupice x Red Brandywine)F1 x (Ernie's Plump x Sugary Pudovich) F1
(Stupice x Red Brandywine)F1 x Lillian's Yellow Heirloom F1
(Stupice x Red Brandywine)F1 x (Maya and Sion's x JD's Special C-Tex) F1
(Stupice x Red Brandywine)F1 x (Opalka x My Brandywine) F1
(Stupice x Red Brandywine)F1 x Sandul Moldovan F1

Maya and Sion's x Lillian's Yellow Heirloom F1
(Red Brandywine x Purple Russian) F1 x Maya and Sions. F1
(Maya and Sion's x JD's Special C-Tex) F2
Bianca Grande x (Maya and Sion's x JD's Special C-Tex) F1
Fred Limbaugh Potato Topx (Maya and Sion's x JD's Special C-Tex) F1
Gildo Pitroboni x (Maya and Sion's x JD's Special C-Tex) F1
Hege German Pink x (Maya and Sion's x JD's Special C-Tex) F1

A few photos:

Maya and Sion's Airdrie Classic


Maya and Sion's x JD's Special C-Tex F1


Oaxacan Jewel (just because it came up, and it's pretty). You should TOTALLY cross it to Stupice.

If you'd like seed from any of the above, I'd be happy to send them along.

Last edited by PaddyMc; June 13, 2013 at 03:00 AM.
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Old June 13, 2013   #44
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Wow, PaddyMc, those look great!
I'd love to hear a status update at the end of the season and swap some seeds for next year. Since I'm looking for a compact growth habit as well as cold tolerance, I\m trying a group of early determinate/ semi-determinates in my grow this year and comparing with Stupice. No taste test yet, but the winners for early fruit set and setting and growing fruit in cool conditions are already obvious.
Beaverlodge Plum and Kimberley are both precocious flowering, but BLP has twice the fruit set (30 fruit at 90 days from germination), larger fruit, and a very compact growth habit.
Siberian Pink is a fruit setting beast.
Al Kuffa has a beautiful sturdy growth habit, very cold tolerant and steadily setting and growing full clusters of fruit. Gorgeous plant.
Petrusha Ogorodnik has a similar growth habit and is setting up nicely, a little later.
Zolotoe Serdtse is outstanding for setting and growing fruit even during the coldest weather.
Danko is a little later but also promising, with steady fruit set and growth.
Of the two parthenocarpics, Cold Set has loaded up with fruit while Siletz is only now beginning to set.

(Other losers in the early fruit set challenge this year are: Glacier, Alaska, Early Cascade F1, Zolotoy Zapas, Sophie's Choice).

In the indeterminate varieties, I'm missing my Black Sea Man this year, which loads up with big fruit early. I have some candidates performing on par with Oaxacan Jewel, that is, at this stage at least one fruit 1 inch or more plus some small ones setting: Black Early, Yaponskiy Krab, Pervaya Lyubov.

Starting to think about crosses....

Last edited by bower; June 13, 2013 at 06:41 AM. Reason: forgot one!
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