Cherokee Purple ripe?

[brengolio]

I attached a photo of this Cherokee Purple........ it's been like this for a week........ seems like the photos I've seen have looked darker in color......... anyway........ thanks in advance, brengolio

[delltraveller]

The intensity of the color can vary quite a bit, as can the degree to which it might have green shoulders. Environmental factors can have a lot effect. Most people I know use the touch test method--if it yields a bit to pressure towards the blossom end, it's ready to pick. You may just have to pick it and try it to know if it was ready a week ago, now, or a week from now. Then you use what you learn to guide you has the other fruits ripen.

[Dewayne mater]

Well that is strange indeed. That is ripening to red, whereas all the CPs I've had ripened to purple...never going through a red stage. Could it be a mix up in seeds?

[nctomatoman]

That looks like a pink tomato.....what was the seed or plant source?

[brengolio]

a local store had them........... and I cant remember the name of the source........... I dont think I'll mess with them in the future............ I just recently purchased Indian stripe and spudakee..... thanks for the reply

[b54red]

Indian Stripe and Spudakee look very similar to Cherokee Purple when ripe.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by b54red

Indian Stripe and Spudakee look very similar to Cherokee Purple when ripe.

Cherokee Purple and Indian Stripe should differ in the following ways.

The fruits of IS are a bit smaller, lighter in color and more to the truss, according to the original seeds I received from my friend Donna who found this variety growing in a garden near where she was visiting relatives.

Both CP and IS have a clear epidermis which is what I call pink/blacks as opposed to those so called blacks that have a yellow epidermis which I call red/blacks.

I've not grown Spudakee but if all turns out as it should it looks like several of us will be saving seed from our PL IS's, but pretty please let's not call it anything other than Indian Stripe PL or Potato Leaf Indian Stripe, or the reverse, which is what Jere Gettle called his PL CP as in Potato Leaf Cherokee Purple.

Bill, I didn't grow an RL IS for comparison but know IS quite well anyway, or at least what it was when I first received the seeds and several subsequent growouts for seed production.

[b54red]

Carolyn, I was talking about the overall color of the ripening fruit in the picture. My Indian Stripes have never been that red but then maybe it is just the growing conditions. It did seem that last year the ones ripening in early summer were considerably lighter in color than the fruits that ripened in late summer and fall on the same plant.

I don't believe that the IS pl is the same as Spudakee because the leaf size is different on the two plants with the leaves on the IS pl being smaller overall. The leaf color on Spudakee seemed slightly darker also but I just have not had enough plants yet to do a fair test. The fruits of Spudakee seem to be slightly more flattened and less in the truss than on the IS pl but I really did not have time for a good comparison. The problem is my first IS pl plant was destroyed by gray mold before I could do a good comparison.

I have more of the IS pl growing along with CP, Spudakee, and IS rl. Maybe I'll get the chance to do a true comparison from plants all at similar stages and fruits at the same time. Hopefully others with more knowledge of these varieties will also get to do a true comparison of plants and fruit at the same time.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by b54red

Carolyn, I was talking about the overall color of the ripening fruit in the picture. My Indian Stripes have never been that red but then maybe it is just the growing conditions. It did seem that last year the ones ripening in early summer were considerably lighter in color than the fruits that ripened in late summer and fall on the same plant.

I don't believe that the IS pl is the same as Spudakee because the leaf size is different on the two plants with the leaves on the IS pl being smaller overall. The leaf color on Spudakee seemed slightly darker also but I just have not had enough plants yet to do a fair test. The fruits of Spudakee seem to be slightly more flattened and less in the truss than on the IS pl but I really did not have time for a good comparison. The problem is my first IS pl plant was destroyed by gray mold before I could do a good comparison.

I have more of the IS pl growing along with CP, Spudakee, and IS rl. Maybe I'll get the chance to do a true comparison from plants all at similar stages and fruits at the same time. Hopefully others with more knowledge of these varieties will also get to do a true comparison of plants and fruit at the same time.

I wouldn't expect IS PL to be the same as Spudakee, aka Cherokee Purple PL, b'c IS is not exactly the same as CP with respect to what I mentioned above.

As I've said so many times, we can't expect a PL variant of an original RL to be the same as the original in all ways b'c seldom is it due to a single spontaneous mutation. I used to think it was, but when it was called to my attention that there are several ways that the DNA can be changed to give a PL variant, I ASAP changed my mind as well.

I knew of these other DNA mechanisms, such as repeats, looping out, inversions, etc., from working with bacteria and viruses but just never considered them when it came to tomatoes.

And what it means is yes, one can get a PL variant of an RL, but it also means that more than the leaf genes can change so that other traits can also be changed.

I'm sure there are some PL variants of an original RL that probably did arise from a simgle mutation, but I can't list them b/c I don't know which ones they are.

I think I'll also contact the other person who independently of you found a PL IS and see how that's going to date, and will report back here when I do that.

This week Freda can't be here the whole week and I look at my lovely PL IS out there and want so much to get it out of that small pot and into the huge pot that sits on a tree stump b'c it's growing beautifully and the transfer has to happen soon. But my neighbor down the road apiece has a black thumb and I wouldn't even put a trowel in her hand.

So hopefully Freda can do the transfer on Friday.

[b54red]

I can see that there might be other differences. Last year the pl version had slightly smaller fruit and the taste was better for me. The problem is I had only the one plant to compare. This year I hopefully will have more; but weather and diseases are conspiring against me.

[delltraveller]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

As I've said so many times, we can't expect a PL variant of an original RL to be the same as the original in all ways b'c seldom is it due to a single spontaneous mutation. I used to think it was, but when it was called to my attention that there are several ways that the DNA can be changed to give a PL variant, I ASAP changed my mind as well.

I can tell that I'm somewhat sleep deprived in addition to having tomatoes on the brain because when I first saw "ASAP" in Carolyn's reply, I thought, I don't know of any tomato called ASAP. What tomato is that?

[greyghost]

Carolyn, I had a couple of PL seedlings last year in my Indian Stripe which I
didn't grow out since they were off-type. I seeded quite a few Indian Stripe again hoping to get another PL but did not get any PL seedlings leading me to think that maybe they were a couple of misplaced seeds. When Bill said he had a PL I thought I should mention that I did also but, in retrospect, I shouldn't have mentioned it since I didn't grow it out to see that it actually had dark fruit. I sent Camo the Indian Stripe seed and he's only gotten regular leaf seedlings from it so again, it leads me to think I did not actually
have a PL Indian Stripe.

Do I remember correctly that Bill on idig (with the gorilla avatar) has had
potato leaf Indian Stripe seedlings? I wonder if anyone is growing any
of his Indian Stripe PL seeds as well as seeds from B54red.

Bill and I trade seeds and I am growing his Indian Stripe PL but I have just a few small, green fruits at this time. I definitely won't send out seed id'ed
as Indian Stripe PL until the issue is resolved. Darlene

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by greyghost

Carolyn, I had a couple of PL seedlings last year in my Indian Stripe which I
didn't grow out since they were off-type. I seeded quite a few Indian Stripe again hoping to get another PL but did not get any PL seedlings leading me to think that maybe they were a couple of misplaced seeds. When Bill said he had a PL I thought I should mention that I did also but, in retrospect, I shouldn't have mentioned it since I didn't grow it out to see that it actually had dark fruit. I sent Camo the Indian Stripe seed and he's only gotten regular leaf seedlings from it so again, it leads me to think I did not actually
have a PL Indian Stripe.

Do I remember correctly that Bill on idig (with the gorilla avatar) has had
potato leaf Indian Stripe seedlings? I wonder if anyone is growing any
of his Indian Stripe PL seeds as well as seeds from B54red.

Bill and I trade seeds and I am growing his Indian Stripe PL but I have just a few small, green fruits at this time. I definitely won't send out seed id'ed
as Indian Stripe PL until the issue is resolved. Darlene

Darlene it is, and I should have remembered and thanks for responding to my PM to post here.

There are two Bills. Bill at idig is Bill Jeffers, aka GGG, and I can't remember if he told me he had a PL IS. Actually it was he who told me that you did as well as Bill, B4 who posted here in this thread.

I don't remember the time sequence but B4 Bill did send me seeds for his PL IS and the seedlings are all PL.

Maybe later in the season I'll put up a thread just about IS PL's and see who contributes b'c right now I don't know who all might be growing it from one source or another.

As I've said before, it didn't surprise me at all when IS turned up with PL foliage since Cherokee Purple has thrown two PL's, Spudakee and Jere Gettle's independent one, Cherokee Purple Potato Leaf.

Thanks again for stopping by and time will tell what we have and if IS PL is the same as IS RL in all respects except for leaf form.