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Old July 30, 2017   #16
carolyn137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nan_PA_6b View Post
Carolyn, do you think heat treatment would be likely to kill off pathogens on the seed surface as well?

Nan
Nan,there are many many tomato pathogens as you know,some are always found on the exterior,some only in the seed embryo and another variable is that different pathogens are found in different parts of the US and elsewhere..

And some that shouldn't be on the seed exterior but can be found there adventitiously.

I can only give you a few links and let you read, I re read some of them,to see what you think.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...k1.UrY8OJsI_3A

https://www.google.com/search?q=toma...&bih=788&dpr=1

And this Cornell one which goes into detail on seed treatments,etc.I like this one very much and have linked to it several times.

http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...l_BactSeed.htm

Carolyn
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Old July 30, 2017   #17
Nan_PA_6b
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Thanks for the links, Carolyn! It seems that hot water treatment will take care of fungus and bacteria on the surface or in the seed coat, as well as the internal viruses.

Nan
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Old July 31, 2017   #18
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As of last night, another seedling popped up in each of the batches. So we're up to 94% germination all around.

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Old July 31, 2017   #19
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Thank you for testing. I was planning to do the same. I have a boat-load of saved seed
from last year. CherokeeChoc has/had 99% germination. A good candidate.

Good points mentioned to consider.
I thought heat treating should be done just before planting.
Or test both. Dry and save. Sow right away.

from the Cornell link...

"Either seed treatment should be done within a few weeks of planting. Best is doing right before planting as treatment can prime seed for germination."

^that would speed up germination times.
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Old July 31, 2017   #20
carolyn137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nan_PA_6b View Post
Thanks for the links, Carolyn! It seems that hot water treatment will take care of fungus and bacteria on the surface or in the seed coat, as well as the internal viruses.

Nan
Nan,I don't agree.

In my post above I gave you many links and hopefully you saw that there are many many tomato pathogens and here in the US ones found in the south,but not the north, and same in other countries as well.

If you are doing this just for yourself,your own seeds that you would sow and plants grown in your own garden,sure,OK, but I do not agree if you are making any seed offers or trading seeds to use them that way.

If you look at the Pest and Disease Forum, you see so many folks who don't even know what diseases their tomatoes have. Thankfully others here try to help them.

Carolyn
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Old July 31, 2017   #21
Nan_PA_6b
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Oakley,
If the treatment "primes the seed for germination," perhaps I didn't mislabel the batches after all, and the heat-treated were quicker?

However, one article said, ""*** old seed can be severely damaged by this treatment. A small sample of any seed lot over 1 year old should be treated and tested for germination to determine amount of injury that may occur" (source: http://www.growseed.org/seedtreatments.html)

Nan

Quote:
Originally Posted by oakley View Post
Thank you for testing. I was planning to do the same. I have a boat-load of saved seed
from last year. CherokeeChoc has/had 99% germination. A good candidate.

Good points mentioned to consider.
I thought heat treating should be done just before planting.
Or test both. Dry and save. Sow right away.

from the Cornell link...

"Either seed treatment should be done within a few weeks of planting. Best is doing right before planting as treatment can prime seed for germination."

^that would speed up germination times.

Last edited by Nan_PA_6b; July 31, 2017 at 04:38 PM.
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Old July 31, 2017   #22
Nan_PA_6b
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I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with, Carolyn.

1. I asked if hot water treatment would destroy fungal and bacterial pathogens on the seed surface, as well as viruses in the seed.
2. You gave me references to read to answer my question.
3. I read the references and they said hot water treatment does indeed destroy fungus and bacterial pathogens on the seed surface. Question answered.

Are you saying you don't want me to hot-water treat any seeds I share? May I know your reasoning? I'm doing the experiment to see what downsides there are to hot water treatment.

Nan

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Nan,I don't agree.

In my post above I gave you many links and hopefully you saw that there are many many tomato pathogens and here in the US ones found in the south,but not the north, and same in other countries as well.

If you are doing this just for yourself,your own seeds that you would sow and plants grown in your own garden,sure,OK, but I do not agree if you are making any seed offers or trading seeds to use them that way.

If you look at the Pest and Disease Forum, you see so many folks who don't even know what diseases their tomatoes have. Thankfully others here try to help them.

Carolyn
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Old July 31, 2017   #23
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I think the seeds need to be fermented first then heat treated.

I ((((think)))) mind you think. this is what Carolyn is trying to say.

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Old July 31, 2017   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
I think the seeds need to be fermented first then heat treated.

I ((((think)))) mind you think. this is what Carolyn is trying to say.

Worth
Worth, if the hot water treatment takes out the pathogens on both the inside and the outside, what would be the purpose of fermenting?

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Old August 1, 2017   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nan_PA_6b View Post
Worth, if the hot water treatment takes out the pathogens on both the inside and the outside, what would be the purpose of fermenting?

Nan
To get the gel coats off?

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Old August 1, 2017   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
To get the gel coats off?

Worth
That's what the Oxiclean was for.

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Old August 1, 2017   #27
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I dont think some people believe oxi clean kills like fermenting.
Just trying to get to the bottom of it is all.
Not arguing with your methods.
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Old August 1, 2017   #28
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I would think heat treated seed would be desirable. As long as it was stated on the
packet, (to prevent re-treating).

I have no reason to heat treat but experimentation for the future and curiosity.
I've never traded tomato seed as my 'stable' of favorites are not at all unusual.

But now growing micros year round and the dwarf project...
No, I don't plan on heat treating, just fermentation. And no known issues with my
plants.
This years gifted seeds I have had no issues with germination as Worth mentioned
zero germination. (except from Carolyn)

This video is helpful...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie3H_icKWb4
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Old August 1, 2017   #29
carolyn137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakley View Post
I would think heat treated seed would be desirable. As long as it was stated on the
packet, (to prevent re-treating).

I have no reason to heat treat but experimentation for the future and curiosity.
I've never traded tomato seed as my 'stable' of favorites are not at all unusual.

But now growing micros year round and the dwarf project...
No, I don't plan on heat treating, just fermentation. And no known issues with my
plants.
This years gifted seeds I have had no issues with germination as Worth mentioned
zero germination. (except from Carolyn)

This video is helpful...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie3H_icKWb4
Please help unconfuse me.

I haven't sent any seeds to individuals unless they sent seeds to me for the seed offer and the 2017 seed offer isn't even up yet.

So please unconfuse me.

Or am I reading what you said above incorrectly and seeds I sent you,which I don't think I did for the reasons stated above did germinate OK?

It may look like double speak here on my part,but really, I'm just trying to understand. Or do I know you with a different user name and possibly even an e-mail addy?

Thanks,

Carolyn
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Old August 1, 2017   #30
oakley
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Sorry if confusing in my dyslexic writing style...

Worth mentioned getting seeds from others and had zero germination except seeds
from you.
So he trusts your fermentation method.

I've not traded or accepted or asked for seed until this past year, 2016. From the great
enabler Marsha. Most of my seed is from TGS, Johnny's, SampleSeed, BakersCreek,
and Artisan...

I was unaware of your past seed offers until joining here. And know that you have not
offered in some time. Maybe this year.
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