Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.
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February 15, 2017 | #16 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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OP versions
In fact there appear to be at least several so-called OP versions.
I know of at least three and at least one of the "operators" selling them claims to have "dehybridized" the variety. That is nonsense. I have actually tried two of these and they do not compare favorably. They do not have the characteristic subtlety and complexity of Dona F1. In my judgment they are not worth having but you can find them easily if you want. Another version has been sold as plants. While the company knew very well that they were using so-called OP seeds, they falsely and illegally claimed that they were selling hybrid plants. When notified of the discrepancy, they changed their claim on the website slightly. A year later they went more-or- less back to the same claim. Worse, even though they were provided with a source for genuine Dona F1 seeds, which they could have used to supply genuine plants and probably made a bigger profit, they chose not to. My suggestion is that you not bother with any of them. If you ever get the chance to compare any of these with the F1, you will know the difference immediately. |
February 15, 2017 | #17 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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@MarlynnMarcks:
Why don't you just send me a SASE. I will be happy to send you a few anyway. You can plant them next year or give to someone who would plant them now. I'm sending a PM with the address. |
February 15, 2017 | #18 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 3,194
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February 15, 2017 | #19 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,169
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Quote:
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Dona I grew the F1's of both Dona and Carmello which I got from her then seed site and,well, wasn't impressed at all , considering the options I had as to medium sized reds, whether F1 or OP Break O Day is a great OP that more folks should grow IMO http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Break_O%27Day But I do appreciate the offer for true Dona F1 that is being made,especially for those who didn't know it even existed. Carolyn
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Carolyn |
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February 15, 2017 | #20 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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Hi Carolyn, glad to see your opinion.
Yes, I understand that some people are not as impressed as I am as well as some others. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. On the other hand, I've found out after all this time that Dona F1 does require some heat to develop it's characteristic subtlety. A few weeks of cloudless 85 degree days makes a big difference. 2014 and 2015 here (Western PA) were cloudy and cool and Dona did not do well. I had a few good ones and the rest were acceptable but not wonderful. Green and yellow tomatoes in those two years were much closer to their normally expected quality. So if I were in a predominantly cool and overcast climate, maybe I would try something else. 2016 - a different story. Incidentally, there is a short list of varieties that you have circulated, including Supersonic and it turns out that Supersonic, in fact, shares some of the characteristics that I appreciate in Dona. Not as pronounced but good enough that if I ever could absolutely not get Dona anymore, I would substitute SUpersonic and be satisfied that I had not lost too much. |
February 16, 2017 | #21 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7
Posts: 4,909
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When I read things like this I wonder what is it that make a variety so special selling seeds at such a high price ?
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Gardeneer Happy Gardening ! |
February 16, 2017 | #22 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Finland, EU
Posts: 2,550
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That's what I am thinking, Gardeneer.. Sure it can be a good variety, but so are hundreds of others, both hybrid and OP, easily available in the U.S...
What makes this so special it has to be smuggled out of Europe at any cost to hungry growers .. |
February 17, 2017 | #23 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: California
Posts: 383
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PM sent. What a generous offer. Thank you.
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February 17, 2017 | #24 | |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: California
Posts: 383
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Quote:
I'll be honest, I like her seeds for other vegetables but in nearly a decade I have never successfully grown a tomato from RGS. I've been looking for the Dona F1s forever and was similarly tempted by the "OP" versions from several sites, glad I never tried them. |
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February 17, 2017 | #25 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 2,593
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I grow a few Dona F1 every year, and they are good producers here in Atlanta.
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February 18, 2017 | #26 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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Shepherd's Seeds
@JosephineRose
Yes, they were F1, which made it such a disaster when the breeder discontinued them and even Renee couldn't get any. That was in 2007. 2009, they were re-introduced, apparently by demand of French farmers and gardeners. Apparently, nobody knew this, at least in this country. I happened to find out on the Vilmorin website (no announcement was made here) and set about trying to get some. So far, no retail seed company in US seems to have restocked them. It's hard to know what Renee is handling as Crimson Carmello. I guess it would bear some relation to the previous Carmello F1. You could ask. She does have a horticulturist there who is willing to answer such questions. Also, Renee does rename some varieties for whatever reason, sometimes just for licensing reasons. For instance, I grew Ramdor yellow pole beans for several years but began to run out of seed. She's got something she calls French Gold and I had my suspicions, so asked, partly because she also carries Rocdor from the same breeder. French Gold is from plants raised and harvested from Ramdor seeds. I have grown them a couple years now and, beans being beans, they are identical as far as I can tell. Very nice flavor and 48 days from seed to first harvest. With respect to Carmello again, there is a Carmello F1 being sold by a couple of small US companies. Also, I have seen this on some European websites but don't remember where. Often, I am doubtful about the F1 and OP claims made by lots of companies. On the other hand, Syngenta also has a Carmello F1 in Europe and if they are defending any rights they may have, maybe you'd have a chance of getting the right thing. Google "Carmello F1". Also, there is still a thread on "Gardenweb",now Houzz, with some information and opinions on this topic: http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussi...me-as-carmello One thing I see in there that has me wondering is Carolyn's claim that she has found yearbook entries from 1989 showing OP Dona. That has me a bit pestered as I'm very sure Dona F1 was not introduced until 1992, which is in accord with her recollection that Renee had it in the early 90s. However, she sees what she sees and I don't want to argue with that or try to explain it away. Nonetheless, I think it prudent to be dubious about anybody's claims (Renee and Carolyn excepted) just because there are so many people using and misusing these names. Some of them are naive or careless and others are flat out lying. At the same time, if I were Syngenta or Vilmorin, and I had some actual rights under EU law or treaties, I probably would not try to defend any of it in USA. It can't be worth it trying to scrap with any of the screwball people who do this kind of thing. I guess I would just sell in Europe, try to keep my titles clear there and not worry about the US. |
February 18, 2017 | #27 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: May 2016
Location: PA - 5b
Posts: 92
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Carmello F1
I've just located the page on Carmello F1 at graines-caillard.com
This company is also a breeder of tomato varieties and since they specifically say it is hybrid F1 and that it is their own specialty, this may well be the actual source. http://graines-caillard.com/produits...es&product=258 |
February 19, 2017 | #28 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 2,593
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Just to be clear, I buy my Dona F1 in Paris.
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February 19, 2017 | #29 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10
Posts: 9,283
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February 19, 2017 | #30 |
Tomatovillian™
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 2,593
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Marsha, I love your seed offer, but my seed albums are now where seeds go to die. I have thousands of seeds who are becoming hoary with age.
I am focusing on growing what I have rather than expanding, at least for a couple of years. |
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