Topping pepper plants

[drew51]

I saw a series of videos on topping (heading) pepper plants and wondered if others practice this technique? Also bud removal of early buds? Any opinions welcome! I must admit I have never grown peppers from seeds. I have grown tomatoes and other things, but not peppers. I now have about 12 pepper seedlings. I need to experiment to see what works well here, and what works well for me, taste, in the kitchen, etc. So I have years of experimenting ahead of me! I'm growing a lot of ornamentals too, as I also want function and form.
A little of everything with a touch more ornamentals. I'm into edible landscaping. I plan to overwinter the ornamentals and the hotter peppers for possible better production the 2nd year.

[Hermitian]

If plants are started indoors with insufficient light (< 50W / sq.ft.) then their growth habit can be spindly. If pinched back when taken outdoors (or a few days prior), they will develop a more bush-like structure.

My experience with overwintering chili plants outdoors (zone 10b) is that in cooler temperatures the stems tend to stiffen and the plant struggles to restart growth the following spring-summer. In fact I have a habanero outside right now. Indoor overwintering can be very successful if temperatures are kept above 75F and daylight is simulated with 6400-6500 Kelvin bulbs at least 50W/sq.ft. -- the plants never stop producing.

[drew51]

Thanks for the info. I have plenty of light, not a problem there. Here's the video's
beginning
few weeks later
conclusion

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by drew51

Thanks for the info. I have plenty of light, not a problem there. Here's the video's
beginning
few weeks later
conclusion

Ok, but the videos show growing conditions in a lower light environment.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Ok, but the videos show growing conditions in a lower light environment.

OK, well i didn't get that from the video. If that's why, it should have been made clear. On my lights I'm not sure about wattage? Input is 230 Watts. Output is 20,000 lumens. I also use diamond foil around plants. In the spring/summer they will get full sun.

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by drew51

OK, well i didn't get that from the video. If that's why, it should have been made clear. On my lights I'm not sure about wattage? Input is 230 Watts. Output is 20,000 lumens. I also use diamond foil around plants. In the spring/summer they will get full sun.

Lumens are a measure of human perception of brightness. There is no relevance to plants. They are only on the label because of an outdated US architectural law regarding light bulbs. What matters for plants is spectrum (6400-6500 Kelvin) and Watts/sq.ft. of projected area. Fluorescent bulbs have an output efficiency (initially) in the high 90 percentile, so input Watts is very close to output Watts.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Lumens are a measure of human perception of brightness. There is no relevance to plants. They are only on the label because of an outdated US architectural law regarding light bulbs. What matters for plants is spectrum (6400-6500 Kelvin) and Watts/sq.ft. of projected area. Fluorescent bulbs have an output efficiency (initially) in the high 90 percentile, so input Watts is very close to output Watts.

OK, well it doesn't have the wattage info. Spectrum is as you mention, the growth spectrum, not the blossom spectrum. They are plant lights, T-5's at 4 feet, 4 bulb fixture. It's bright!! I'll tell you that! I do not like looking at it. I can also add more lights, but only 2 footers. Like say a side light for mature plants. Right now the foil is useless as they are just seedlings and the light is very close to plants. I actually have a bunch of old I guess T-8 fixtures. I might use them in the future too, they are being useless at the moment.

So in the winter, use the 6K Kelvin? not the 3K Kelvin lights?

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by drew51

OK, well it doesn't have the wattage info. Spectrum is as you mention, the growth spectrum, not the blossom spectrum. They are plant lights, T-5's at 4 feet, 4 bulb fixture. It's bright!! I'll tell you that! I do not like looking at it. I can also add more lights, but only 2 footers. Like say a side light for mature plants. Right now the foil is useless as they are just seedlings and the light is very close to plants. I actually have a bunch of old I guess T-8 fixtures. I might use them in the future too, they are being useless at the moment.

So in the winter, use the 6K Kelvin? not the 3K Kelvin lights?

But you said the total input wattage was 230 Watts? If this was a 4-bulb T5HO 4' long system, those are 55 Watt bulbs so the actual input wattage is 220W. At 95% efficiency you'd get about 210 Watts on a projected area at 1 meter from the bulbs. It's easy to measure projected area - just suspend the fixture a meter from the floor and note where the edge of the illuminated area is. Compute the area of that rectangle. (Note: the light fixture must have a top-down reflective hood.) Divide the total wattage by the area and now you know your system parameters. If the area is too big, you can narrow it somewhat by extending your hood. By lowering the light fixture closer to the plants you can also increase intensity: at 1/2 meter the light intensity is double what you measured at 1 meter, and at 1/4 meter above the plants the light intensity is 4 times what you measured.

The 3000K bulbs and this whole concept of "grow" vs. "fruit" color spectrums is a way to sell more product to stoned people growing pot. In trials where everything else (including nutrients) is nearly ideal, there is no efficacy for using 3000K bulbs and in some crops the results are poorer. No one I know in professional agriculture is using them, including the 55,000 sq.ft. indoor vegetable growing facility 3 miles down the road from here.

The 3000K bulbs do have a use in manufacturing.

[drew51]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

But you said the total input wattage was 230 Watts? .

Yes, that's what the actual specs say.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HEYCRI8/...I2HIDH5U1G2IQI

Originally Posted by Hermitian

The 3000K bulbs and this whole concept of "grow" vs. "fruit" color spectrums is a way to sell more product to stoned people growing pot. .

Ha!!! ROFL, OK thanks, that is very useful info, I don't have any of those bulbs, but thought about buying them.

[Doug9345]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Lumens are a measure of human perception of brightness. There is no relevance to plants. They are only on the label because of an outdated US architectural law regarding light bulbs. What matters for plants is spectrum (6400-6500 Kelvin) and Watts/sq.ft. of projected area. Fluorescent bulbs have an output efficiency (initially) in the high 90 percentile, so input Watts is very close to output Watts.

Actually that looks either like a ballast efficiency or a ballast factor. Fluorescents are in the 25% - 40% range. The main problem is that low pressure mercury emits most of it's energy in the ultraviolet range. That ultra violet is then used to make the phosphors in the tube glow. A photon of ultraviolet light has much more energy that a photon of visible light. The difference in the energy is lost as heat.

[kath]

Some other members have weighed in on this question before in parts of these threads:

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...pepper+flowers

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...pepper+flowers

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...pepper+flowers

Hope you find what you're looking for and have great success with your plants-

kath

[drew51]

I have seen photos in the hot pepper forum of decent plants that never were put outside, grown under shop lights, impressive, with many peppers. It's pretty amazing what you can accomplish with simple lights.

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by drew51

I have seen photos in the hot pepper forum of decent plants that never were put outside, grown under shop lights, impressive, with many peppers. It's pretty amazing what you can accomplish with simple lights.

The T5HO 6500K are shop lights if you are buying in the correct venue. For example, at an electrical contractors outlet. The packaging you see on them from hydroponic venues is just a means of quadrupling the price!

Originally Posted by Doug9345

Actually that looks either like a ballast efficiency or a ballast factor. Fluorescents are in the 25% - 40% range. The main problem is that low pressure mercury emits most of it's energy in the ultraviolet range. That ultra violet is then used to make the phosphors in the tube glow. A photon of ultraviolet light has much more energy that a photon of visible light. The difference in the energy is lost as heat.

I have clients who grow fruits, vegetables, and sometimes marijuana in warehouses and in converted orchid houses. The converted flower houses have translucent roofs and supplemental lighting using suspended T5 systems. For example, one operation is in Murrieta CA with 5 50,000 sq.ft. enclosures growing fruits and vegetables year-round for fresh market sales. They have geo-thermal on site and mostly free electricity. The lighting is controlled by photometers to achieve 700 W/sq. meter during the "daylight" period regardless of the actual sunshine levels above. Mid-season we measure about 90% efficiency from the T5 bulbs.

[RootLoops]

can you recommend a good source for t5 fixtures and bulbs that will suffice for tomatoes, bell peppers, and culinary herbs? possibly kale, lettuce, and strawberries at some point as well.

i've avoided t5's for the cost but maybe i can put back a little and move to them in the near future

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by RootLoops

can you recommend a good source for t5 fixtures and bulbs that will suffice for tomatoes, bell peppers, and culinary herbs? possibly kale, lettuce, and strawberries at some point as well.

i've avoided t5's for the cost but maybe i can put back a little and move to them in the near future

Lettuce has different light and temperature requirements. You want to aim for about 40W/sq.ft. If the "overnight" temperatures are above 60F, then the heads will be bitter.

So to source T5 light systems, you can drive to a home repair store and buy 4' x 4-bulb fixtures and T5HO 6500K 55W bulbs for them at reasonable prices. If you need a lot of fixtures and bulbs, then locate a contractor's supplier -- for example, find out where a local hospital or manufacturing facility buys their lighting.

Online you can order purpose-made fixtures that include the bulbs. I think the best one out there is the "Sun Blaze T5 VHO 48". On the west coast, the supplier that currently has the lowest price is Greentrees Hydroponics.