Distinct variations between varieties

huntoften · March 24, 2012

Every year I am always amazed at the extreme differences between different varieties even as they are just developing their first true leaves.

This year, Kimberly is a monster of a seedling...very thick stem and a good inch taller than most of the other varieties. Matt's Wild Cherry is just the opposite...very delicate seedlings with wispy stems and a full inch shorter than most varieties. Sungold with its strong scent is an interesting bit of uniqueness. The bush and dwarf varieties all show their adult characteristics of being short and stocky even at this early stage.

I am surely not the only one that geeks out about this aspect of the process. Anyone care to share their observations of unique baby plants?

bower · March 24, 2012

Thank goodness I'm not the only one.

They are so unique even in the small seedling stage. The shape of the first true leaves is distinctive, and even whether they put out one true leaf at a time (Black Cherry!), or two almost simultaneously (Black Sea Man, Jaune Flamme).

In my latest batch, Violet Jasper and Fiaschetto are the ones that are growing amazingly fast and big. Gardener's Delight is the tiny one! Anna Russian is not as 'wispy' as I expected, so far.
The PL's are a bit less distinctive on leaf shape.. Vorlon, Oaxacan Jewel, are fairly slow growing compared to Black Sea Man, but Galinas is the smallest and slowest of the lot. Moravsky Div and Stupice are coming on faster, and so similar, I can't tell them apart.

livinonfaith · March 25, 2012

My favorite one so far is my Little White Rabbit, a small white cherry tomato. The leaves are small and deeply cut, delicate and ornamental.

tgplp · March 25, 2012

LOL, I geek out about this all the time!

Right now I've noticed that Lime Green Salad looks different than the other dwarfs- it is a regular leaf, but has thinner leaves than my other regular leaf dwarfs. LGS is still rugose, but has more wispy, serrated leaves than the others. Grub's Mystery Green has huge potato leaves compared to other potato leaf seedlings. Gardener's Delight is more compact than my other cherries, which are tall, leggy, and fast growing. Gardener's delight grows fast, but seems to stay shorter right now. Adorable!

They grow up so fast...

Taryn

**carolyn137** · March 25, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by livinonfaith

My favorite one so far is my Little White Rabbit, a small white cherry tomato. The leaves are small and deeply cut, delicate and ornamental.

Are you sure you have the right variety?

That variety was bred by Joe Bratka and the correct name is just White Rabbit and it isn't that different from the other so called whites that he bred which include Ghost, Snowwhite and Super Snow white and they all have just regular sized leaves that are RL, but not deeply cut.

And none of them gives a white fruit, which is true for almost all so called whites. The fruits vary in color from an ivory color to a pale yellow to a deeper yellow depending on the specific variety, the degree of foliage cover and the degree of UV.

What you describe sounds more to me like the foliage of Silvery Fir Tree, and varieties such as Carrot like, etc. which do have small thin leaves, very narrow, deeply dissected and are very ornamental. The variety Lucinda, which was bred by Fred Hempel and I just offered it it my now closed seed offer is a green when ripe with that kind of foliage b'c Silvery Fir tree was a parent.

Just b'c I'm curious, where did you get the seeds that were labelled Little White Rabbit? At a commercial site or traded seeds? And how were they described either at the commercial site or by the person who you traded with.

Hope that helps.

livinonfaith · March 25, 2012

No Carolyn, my description is what's off, not the tomato.

I actually just went out to the greenhouse to get another look and to try to do better. The leaves themselves are not deeply cut, there are just a couple more of them on a stem, so they look a touch "fernier" (yeah, I know that's not a word, lol) and more well formed than the others.

The leaves are also smaller than the others, about 3/5 the size of the Striped Caverns beside them. They are definitely regular leaf, they just look slightly more delicate and perfectly formed than the others. I was using the wrong terms.

I got the seeds from Amishland last fall, before I joined here. She calls them Little White Rabbit, so I did as well. If the true name is simply White Rabbit, I'll revise my notes. I have heard that she sometimes gets a bit creative with the names and descriptions.

(But her seeds have done well, so far)

Thanks for the information! I would want to know if I had the wrong tomato, but I think this one is okay. I'm certainly looking forward to them. I've heard that they can be quite tasty!

ContainerTed · March 25, 2012

The folks at Amishland have a LLOONNGG history of stretching and/or revising the names of different varieties. They also are usually a bit off on the histories in their descriptions. It's all just a huge marketing hype in order to sell more stuff.

austinnhanasmom · March 25, 2012

I have found poor germination as well...

BigBrownDogHouse · March 25, 2012

I really like the topic of this thread and thought about posting the same thing a few days ago. However, I am not that much of a tomato expert to be able to tell if that is just the trait of the tomato or just some bad seed.

I'm growing Olive Hill for the first time this year and they are a cut above all the rest so far. Tallest and sturdiest, stand outs among the rest. Along with the Olive Hill, the other ones that come close are Stump of the World(got in a trade with Hardwater Bob). They are also doing great.

The tomato I was most excited about in the offseason, Red Barn, has yet to decide if they are going to join the party. Small little things that don't seem to be doing much. I'm starting another batch later today to see if they do better.

I've also noticed that Black Mountain Pink are really tiny too. Starting more of those today.

Have about 70 types germinated.....Believe It or Not, Chapman and Guidos are still no shows. Guess that's another topic though!

livinonfaith · March 25, 2012

So far, the only seed I've had trouble with from Amishland has been the Ratnayake Indian Eggplant. I've sown three times, gone through the entire packet, (12-14 seeds) and finally have one tiny seedling to show for it. I'm not too horribly upset, though, as I only wanted two plants to begin with.

I ended up also sowing Ping Tung just in case the Ratnayake Indian never came up. So I still have two plants, as I originally intended, but I had an excuse to add another variety.

Everything else from Amishland has done fine.

**carolyn137** · March 25, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

The folks at Amishland have a LLOONNGG history of stretching and/or revising the names of different varieties. They also are usually a bit off on the histories in their descriptions. It's all just a huge marketing hype in order to sell more stuff.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16987

Ted, a bit off on the histories, so what about all the name changes and misrepresentation.?

The above link is one I found that should give folks a picture of how Lisa operates. And I've known Lisa. she would not prefer to know me, I'm sure, for over a decade. When I read how she's mangled varieties that I and others have introduced, I cringe.

I'm sorry, well not really, but I would never suggest that someone buy seeds from her. Ever.

And now back to our regular programming about distinct variations between varieties, which I don't really know how to answer, since I don't really know what's being asked about, so won't.

ContainerTed · March 26, 2012

Carolyn, I was trying to be nice. We all know the prolific liberties that Amishland takes with histories and names. And as I said, it's all motivated by the "almighty dollar". It always points out the businesses with an absence of integrity. Just like you, I don't buy from nor recommend spending money where integrity is absent.

ScottinAtlanta · March 26, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgplp

Lime Green Salad looks different than the other dwarfs- it is a regular leaf, but has thinner leaves than my other regular leaf dwarfs.

The best all around plant for me is Bradley - bushy leaves, fast growth, growing up and out at the same time.

**carolyn137** · March 26, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Carolyn, I was trying to be nice. We all know the prolific liberties that Amishland takes with histories and names. And as I said, it's all motivated by the "almighty dollar". It always points out the businesses with an absence of integrity. Just like you, I don't buy from nor recommend spending money where integrity is absent.

So I wasn't as nice as you were and indeed linked to that AMisland thread, but indeed integrity is what it's all about, I agree, and in her case misrepresenting lots of information to pull in the "almighty dollar" as you wrote by saying that this and that variety is rare, exclusive, and those words are next to the names of some varieties she's already misrepresented.

Ok, time to go pack the tomato seeds that are to be sent to Craig for my plants and also Lee and Shoe and Neil for seed production. I said if my seeds from Andrey and Marina didn't come by today I had to go ahead with that but Shoe said if those seeds come later he can start seeds as late as mid-April, he's in NC, and will take all I send.

I love Shoe for that.

MarinaRussian · April 3, 2012

I have 2 seedlings of Japanese Oxheart, both have about 4 true leaves. The 2 seeds germinated at the same time. Well, one of the seedlings is tall, like an indet should be, and the second seedling is short and thick, looking more like a det or even a dwarf. What is that supposed to mean, wrong seed or immature plant?

March 24, 2012	#1
huntoften Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Kansas CIty Posts: 560	Distinct variations between varieties Every year I am always amazed at the extreme differences between different varieties even as they are just developing their first true leaves. This year, Kimberly is a monster of a seedling...very thick stem and a good inch taller than most of the other varieties. Matt's Wild Cherry is just the opposite...very delicate seedlings with wispy stems and a full inch shorter than most varieties. Sungold with its strong scent is an interesting bit of uniqueness. The bush and dwarf varieties all show their adult characteristics of being short and stocky even at this early stage. I am surely not the only one that geeks out about this aspect of the process. Anyone care to share their observations of unique baby plants? __________________ Kansas City, Missouri Zone 5b/6a

March 25, 2012	#7
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	The folks at Amishland have a LLOONNGG history of stretching and/or revising the names of different varieties. They also are usually a bit off on the histories in their descriptions. It's all just a huge marketing hype in order to sell more stuff. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

March 25, 2012	#9
BigBrownDogHouse Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Northern Illinois ZONE 5a...wait now 5b Posts: 906	I really like the topic of this thread and thought about posting the same thing a few days ago. However, I am not that much of a tomato expert to be able to tell if that is just the trait of the tomato or just some bad seed. I'm growing Olive Hill for the first time this year and they are a cut above all the rest so far. Tallest and sturdiest, stand outs among the rest. Along with the Olive Hill, the other ones that come close are Stump of the World(got in a trade with Hardwater Bob). They are also doing great. The tomato I was most excited about in the offseason, Red Barn, has yet to decide if they are going to join the party. Small little things that don't seem to be doing much. I'm starting another batch later today to see if they do better. I've also noticed that Black Mountain Pink are really tiny too. Starting more of those today. Have about 70 types germinated.....Believe It or Not, Chapman and Guidos are still no shows. Guess that's another topic though! __________________ Brian

March 26, 2012	#12
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Carolyn, I was trying to be nice. We all know the prolific liberties that Amishland takes with histories and names. And as I said, it's all motivated by the "almighty dollar". It always points out the businesses with an absence of integrity. Just like you, I don't buy from nor recommend spending money where integrity is absent. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

March 24, 2012	#2
bower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 6,793	Thank goodness I'm not the only one. They are so unique even in the small seedling stage. The shape of the first true leaves is distinctive, and even whether they put out one true leaf at a time (Black Cherry!), or two almost simultaneously (Black Sea Man, Jaune Flamme). In my latest batch, Violet Jasper and Fiaschetto are the ones that are growing amazingly fast and big. Gardener's Delight is the tiny one! Anna Russian is not as 'wispy' as I expected, so far. The PL's are a bit less distinctive on leaf shape.. Vorlon, Oaxacan Jewel, are fairly slow growing compared to Black Sea Man, but Galinas is the smallest and slowest of the lot. Moravsky Div and Stupice are coming on faster, and so similar, I can't tell them apart.

March 25, 2012	#3
livinonfaith Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina Posts: 1,332	My favorite one so far is my Little White Rabbit, a small white cherry tomato. The leaves are small and deeply cut, delicate and ornamental.

March 25, 2012	#4
tgplp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pacific North West, zone 8a Posts: 510	LOL, I geek out about this all the time! Right now I've noticed that Lime Green Salad looks different than the other dwarfs- it is a regular leaf, but has thinner leaves than my other regular leaf dwarfs. LGS is still rugose, but has more wispy, serrated leaves than the others. Grub's Mystery Green has huge potato leaves compared to other potato leaf seedlings. Gardener's Delight is more compact than my other cherries, which are tall, leggy, and fast growing. Gardener's delight grows fast, but seems to stay shorter right now. Adorable! They grow up so fast... Taryn

March 25, 2012	#8
austinnhanasmom Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Z5, CO near Denver Posts: 225	I have found poor germination as well...

April 3, 2012	#15
MarinaRussian Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Russia Posts: 176	I have 2 seedlings of Japanese Oxheart, both have about 4 true leaves. The 2 seeds germinated at the same time. Well, one of the seedlings is tall, like an indet should be, and the second seedling is short and thick, looking more like a det or even a dwarf. What is that supposed to mean, wrong seed or immature plant?