2017 Grafting thread: Open to all

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

Usually I envy those of you down south with longer and multiple growing seasons. And then I read about all the challenges brought on by heat and humidity...

Today was pot-up day for the tomatoes. All 37 grafted plants plus my handful of ungrafted plants are now tucked into larger pots filled with Wondersoil, propped up with skewers, and back under the lights in the basement.

So far I'm not seeing much difference between the two rootstocks -- large root systems and healthy top growth with both. The grafts look really good and solid, and a few will probably pop their clips within the next week.

I am seeing a big difference between the grafted and ungrafted plants, however. The ungrafted were all rootbound, a few have buds, and they are about 5-6 inches taller than the grafted plants. All were started at the same time. This really shows the "set back" caused by the low-root grafting technique.

I'm liking the courser DE (Optisorb) so much more than fine stuff (Ultrasorb). Bill, I can see now how you can just dump it and re-use it, over and over.

The only issue I had today was resisting my natural instinct to plant them deep when up-potting. It was kind of a relief to get to the ungrafted plants and not have to worry about keeping a graft above the soil line.

An easy fix that I have been using since just after I set out my first grafts and trying so hard not to bury the graft juncture is to graft higher up on the rootstock. It makes it so much easier and carefree when planting and also allows mulch to be pulled up against the stem without worrying about the scion rooting.

Grafting definitely slows down the time from planting seed to setting out hardened plants. I have rushed it in the past with some regrets and now just wait patiently or impatiently til they are ready. I figure it usually adds from a couple of weeks at the least to a month so I have to start seed so much earlier in order to make my plant out dates and I'm still usually a bit late. Being a bit late is not usually a problem down here with our very long season and having plants that don't get sick or start getting sick from all our soil born problems is well worth the wait.

Bill

[b54red]

Looks like I am going to have to keep delaying planting out my second bed of tomatoes because those darn Brussels sprouts just keep on making despite the heat. I'm sure they will suddenly go bad in the next few days but I said that two weeks ago and they are still going. This has been a bumper year for them and I hate to cut it short but in a couple of days they are gonna be dug up no matter what because the tomatoes can't wait much longer.

Bill

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by b54red

Looks like I am going to have to keep delaying planting out my second bed of tomatoes because those darn Brussels sprouts just keep on making despite the heat. I'm sure they will suddenly go bad in the next few days but I said that two weeks ago and they are still going. This has been a bumper year for them and I hate to cut it short but in a couple of days they are gonna be dug up no matter what because the tomatoes can't wait much longer.

Bill

Hmm. Cole crops . I have some broccoli doing good too. No florets though. They are on the edge of my herbs garden.
On the grafting, I abandoned after 100% failure (i out of 1 ) and due to lack of root stock. I lost some Big Beef to frost too. It was just an exercise for me. I am not even sure that I will have soil borne disease.

[jtjmartin]

I was happy with my grafting this year and will get to see if it makes a difference in my garden. I had a good success rate on all but the last batch - the weather was hotter and then we took a trip to New York City. My wife said the grafts couldn't go! (I know, right?!)

BIG LESSONS for next year:

1) Save a lot of seed and start A LOT more scion seedlings every few days to get good matches for every rootstock.
2) Start earlier since the healing time sets back the plants a good bit. We had a very early last frost this year - non grafted plants got set out really early and thrived but took the place of some of my grafts.

In the end, I was amazed I could graft! Tonight I went through all my extra grafted plants and was amazed again by how hardy tomatoes are.

[Father'sDaughter]

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

I was happy with my grafting this year and will get to see if it makes a difference in my garden.

This is where I'm at right now -- will grafting make a difference? Will it solve my problems and give me the yields I had when my beds and soil were new? I want to have hope, but some small part of me is worried it'll all be for nothing...

[txtstorm]

I've been having that darndest time loading pictures onto this site. Anyway, just wanted to check in. My grafted plants all seem to be growing at about (or slightly) lower rate than the non-grafted. I'm doing a side by side with Supernatural/Black Krim next to an ungrafted. The grafteds seem to be a little less vigorous although not bad by any stretch. We'll see how the production totals turn out.

[TechGuy]

Thanks to the originally posted info on using DE I am now enjoying grafting success. I use the Optisorb. I started out with maxifort rootstock and several scions plants for each rootstock to get best size match.

I start in seed starting mix and 20% worm castings. Then I pull up rootstock and cut off scions together. I replant in optisorb and squirt with seed starter in h20. I was previously having a lot of failure with damping off, but no more.

I tried planting in DE directly but it took too long for plant to get big enough.

So far successes include Mexico Midget, Blondkopfchen, Cherokee Chocolate, Giant Delicious, Nepal, with others on the way such as Green Giant, Lillians Yellow, Little Lucky, Brandywine, Dester and Cherokee Purple.

Pictured are Cherokee Chocolate

I also wanted to be sure that my enviroment was not a problem. I have a 4' heat mat that was getting into the 90s F. I setup a Raspberry Pi micocomputer with temperature sensor and automatically turn the heat mat on and off to keep internal tray temp within a degree or two of 82F. It also monitor humidy and I can see that it stays within 95-100%

[jtjmartin]

Should I keep mulch away from the graft union to prevent roots from the scion - or just soil?

[geotek]

Hi, just started grafting this year, does anyone else do cleft high grafting? I am using a Maxifort rootstock and have successfully grafted both hybrid and heirloom varieties onto the Maxifort rootstock.
Second question, since Maxifort is listed as strongly vegetative in growth habit, should I let all of the scion side shoots develop to help increase the load on the rootstock and hopefully keep the plant more balanced? (The tallest plants are already 28" tall and just now flowering on the main shoot.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by TechGuy

Thanks to the originally posted info on using DE I am now enjoying grafting success. I use the Optisorb. I started out with maxifort rootstock and several scions plants for each rootstock to get best size match.

I start in seed starting mix and 20% worm castings. Then I pull up rootstock and cut off scions together. I replant in optisorb and squirt with seed starter in h20. I was previously having a lot of failure with damping off, but no more.

I tried planting in DE directly but it took too long for plant to get big enough.

So far successes include Mexico Midget, Blondkopfchen, Cherokee Chocolate, Giant Delicious, Nepal, with others on the way such as Green Giant, Lillians Yellow, Little Lucky, Brandywine, Dester and Cherokee Purple.

Pictured are Cherokee Chocolate

I also wanted to be sure that my enviroment was not a problem. I have a 4' heat mat that was getting into the 90s F. I setup a Raspberry Pi micocomputer with temperature sensor and automatically turn the heat mat on and off to keep internal tray temp within a degree or two of 82F. It also monitor humidy and I can see that it stays within 95-100%

If you use the smaller DE for seed starting and fertilize them as soon as they are an inch tall and continue giving them diluted fertilizer ever week they will grow just as fast as in other seed starting material. There is no fertilizer value in DE so it is imperative that seedlings get constant feeding. When they are small I use bottom feeding and once they are large I just water them like with any other medium. The advantage of using the DE in seed starting is cutting back on damping off which is a real problem for me sometimes.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

Should I keep mulch away from the graft union to prevent roots from the scion - or just soil?

Yes roots will form and go into the mulch and eventually into the soil. That is one of the main reasons I try to graft a little higher up on the root stock.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by geotek

Hi, just started grafting this year, does anyone else do cleft high grafting? I am using a Maxifort rootstock and have successfully grafted both hybrid and heirloom varieties onto the Maxifort rootstock.
Second question, since Maxifort is listed as strongly vegetative in growth habit, should I let all of the scion side shoots develop to help increase the load on the rootstock and hopefully keep the plant more balanced? (The tallest plants are already 28" tall and just now flowering on the main shoot.

If you do you will soon have a huge unmanageable mess on your hands. The fact that it is a vegetative root stock increases the need for pruning which will be needed constantly. The advantage of a vegetative root stock is the heirloom grafted to it will frequently be larger and more robust than normal but along with that will be a tendency to send out even more suckers and growth tips. By pruning you will force more energy into the production of fruit instead of growth tips.

I like using a vegetative root stock on some varieties but for most I prefer one that isn't so vegetative. I have not seen a big increase in production with vegetative root stocks except on some varieties. Some other varieties seem to produce less fruit with a vegetative root stock. You will just have to experiment and see which root stock works best with which varieties in your growing conditions.

Bill

[jtjmartin]

Thanks Bill. I've been keeping an eye on the graft union - some of the scions get that bumpy look that leads to roots if encouraged.

Next year, I plan on letting the rootstock get a little bigger to graft higher - got too impatient this year! I learned a lot though.

[geotek]

Originally Posted by b54red

If you do you will soon have a huge unmanageable mess on your hands. The fact that it is a vegetative root stock increases the need for pruning which will be needed constantly. The advantage of a vegetative root stock is the heirloom grafted to it will frequently be larger and more robust than normal but along with that will be a tendency to send out even more suckers and growth tips. By pruning you will force more energy into the production of fruit instead of growth tips.

I like using a vegetative root stock on some varieties but for most I prefer one that isn't so vegetative. I have not seen a big increase in production with vegetative root stocks except on some varieties. Some other varieties seem to produce less fruit with a vegetative root stock. You will just have to experiment and see which root stock works best with which varieties in your growing conditions.

Bill

Having to prune tomato plants will be a new experience for me as my plants last summer maxed out at 30" tall with 3 or 4 leaders. Should there just be one leader for each support pole? Is it a case of too many shoots shading each other out? The plants are growing on huglemounds with lawn between them so I can train the vines out over the lawns so they don't shade each other. (I've heard stories of tomato plants in excess of 5' tall so I wanted to have that option in case they do really well.)

[b54red]

Originally Posted by geotek

Having to prune tomato plants will be a new experience for me as my plants last summer maxed out at 30" tall with 3 or 4 leaders. Should there just be one leader for each support pole? Is it a case of too many shoots shading each other out? The plants are growing on huglemounds with lawn between them so I can train the vines out over the lawns so they don't shade each other. (I've heard stories of tomato plants in excess of 5' tall so I wanted to have that option in case they do really well.)

If your tomatoes have been topping out at 30" tall then you have probably been growing determinate varieties or they are dying early. My plants set out a month ago are already 3 ft tall and just getting started. It isn't rare for indeterminate healthy plants to get huge if feed and taken care of well.

What varieties of tomatoes are you growing?

Bill