Oops! Novice mistakes

[MuddyToes]

The Hoosier thread made me start thinking of all the novice mistakes I made last year. This was only my 3rd year growing tomatoes. Listed below are a few Mistakes I made. It got me to wondering what advice you would give to someone starting out.

We live in a very humid area, sometimes rainy, sometimes drought. We have anthracnose, septoria, and God know what else is lurking in the soil. Some of The heirloom varieties I grew were much more susceptible to disease (Amish Paste and Black Plum) than San Marzano and Sunsugar (hybrid). I'm not saying I wouldn't grow the AP again. It was delicious. But now I know I need to be proactive in fighting the diseases.

Mistake #1 No Fungicide: I didn't start spraying until after the plants were infected. Then I used copper fungicide once per week and Neem oil after every rain, sometimes daily. Now I know to start spraying right away.

Mistake #2 No Mulch: After picking the brains of the people at a local garden center, I put down coconut mulch and planted lemon gems as ground cover under my tomatoes. They smell incredible when the wind blows or if they get wet. They made watering my tomatoes (twice per day here) something to look forward to.

Mistake #3 Overcrowding: I started out with 6 heirlooms in one 4x4 raised bed. I soon learned that they were way overcrowded. I thinned them out to 4. This year I will only put one tomato plant per 4x4 bed and grow other things around it.

Mistake #4 Cages: I wasn't fast enough getting the cages in the ground. We had a sudden storm that knocked my seedling to the ground. They never fully recovered from that.

[MrsJustice]

Originally Posted by MuddyToes

The Hoosier thread made me start thinking of all the novice mistakes I made last year. This was only my 3rd year growing tomatoes. Listed below are a few Mistakes I made. It got me to wondering what advice you would give to someone starting out.

We live in a very humid area, sometimes rainy, sometimes drought. We have anthracnose, septoria, and God know what else is lurking in the soil. Some of The heirloom varieties I grew were much more susceptible to disease (Amish Paste and Black Plum) than San Marzano and Sunsugar (hybrid). I'm not saying I wouldn't grow the AP again. It was delicious. But now I know I need to be proactive in fighting the diseases.

Mistake #1 No Fungicide: I didn't start spraying until after the plants were infected. Then I used copper fungicide once per week and Neem oil after every rain, sometimes daily. Now I know to start spraying right away.

Mistake #2 No Mulch: After picking the brains of the people at a local garden center, I put down coconut mulch and planted lemon gems as ground cover under my tomatoes. They smell incredible when the wind blows or if they get wet. They made watering my tomatoes (twice per day here) something to look forward to.

Mistake #3 Overcrowding: I started out with 6 heirlooms in one 4x4 raised bed. I soon learned that they were way overcrowded. I thinned them out to 4. This year I will only put one tomato plant per 4x4 bed and grow other things around it.

Mistake #4 Cages: I wasn't fast enough getting the cages in the ground. We had a sudden storm that knocked my seedling to the ground. They never fully recovered from that.

My "Angel Field Farms" flooded October 21, 2016, before Hurrican Matthew hit us. With the October flooding, I was able to save all my plants that were over 8 feet using Native American Secrets which calls for the taken of plants out of the ground". Well, My Mistake were putting the plants back in the ground thinking and believing News Reports that Hurricane Matthews was not coming to Virginia.
I make so many written mistakes being dyslexic, Sometimes it's really funny to me, then it sometimes makes me feel like crying " why Me song.

[MuddyToes]

Originally Posted by MrsJustice

Well, My Mistake were putting the plants back in the ground thinking and believing News Reports that Hurricane Matthews was not coming to Virginia.
I make so many written mistakes being dyslexic, Sometimes it's really funny to me, then it sometimes makes me feel like crying " why Me song.

Being on the coast makes weather unpredictable here, too. You can't trust the weather report

Sorry to hear about your loss of crops. Hope your 2017 is productive

[Patihum]

MuddyToes - In regards to #2 you said you were watering twice a day. If you're talking about containers I could possibly understand doing that but not in-ground. A good soaking once a week should be plenty unless it's really hot and then just twice a week should take care of it. Of course the type of soil you have would influence the frequency.

[MrsJustice]

Originally Posted by MuddyToes

Being on the coast makes weather unpredictable here, too. You can't trust the weather report

Sorry to hear about your loss of crops. Hope your 2017 is productive

Yes Yes: with this climate changing we are going through here in Virginia along with the raising levels of the Chesapeake Bay, have given me the complete understanding of freshwater flooding. I did use the Native Americans secrets I collected over the years. I just did not wait long enough, after the passing of Hurricane Matthew to put back one of each Variety of Historical Vegetable and Tomato Plants, Amen!! Our other Farming properties are higher and the fresh water flooding killed 8 many Varieties. I never had fresh water flooding here before. Next year I will save the seeds first before selling fresh products. I loved the Way "South Carolina protected their Farmers". It made me cry with JOY of Happy Tears. We had only one lot of Farming land that is affect sometimes by Salty Bay Waters. With Hurricane Matthew, we now understand fresh water flooding. We have 2 Historical Lots that flooded under fresh water. I use to brag about how nothing can destroy my crops.
Bad Matthew

But a very good learning Listen

[MuddyToes]

Originally Posted by Patihum

MuddyToes - In regards to #2 you said you were watering twice a day. If you're talking about containers I could possibly understand doing that but not in-ground. A good soaking once a week should be plenty unless it's really hot and then just twice a week should take care of it. Of course the type of soil you have would influence the frequency.

Last summer was sustained upper 90's for six weeks and overnight lows in mid to upper 80's. Crazy hot! And the humidity is ridiculous. "Feels like" temps are over 100.

[dmforcier]

I agree with Patihum. Delaware gots nothing on Texas for heat (though N.TX humidity isn't ferocious). If you have to water that often in-ground then you should suspect under-developed and/or way shallow roots.

One bad thing about over-watering is that it can cause the very symptom it's supposed to relieve: loss of turgor.

[MrsJustice]

My husband is from Texas and his family there suffered very hot conditions last summer. We suffered heat-related problems last summer too. Hopefully, 2017 will be a better year.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by MuddyToes

Last summer was sustained upper 90's for six weeks and overnight lows in mid to upper 80's. Crazy hot! And the humidity is ridiculous. "Feels like" temps are over 100.

I'm just south of Philly, so not far from you, and watering 2x a day seems like craziness to me. Even in the hottest, most brutal heat of this past summer, which was unusually hot and dry, I would not water mature tomato plants more than every other day. Usually more like every 3 or 4 days. Of course, by "watering" I mean slow watering and a LOT of it so that the water penetrates very deep into the ground.

Container plants, however, needed daily or even twice-daily watering.

Are you right on the coast in very sandy soil or something?

Re: #4 -- install the cages when you plant out and make sure to drive stakes deep into the ground and tie the cages to the stakes. Why at plant-out? Because adding cages later can damage the plant, especially the roots, and any time you damage roots, you create an opening for diseases like wilts to have a foothold to infect the plant.

[MuddyToes]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

I'm just south of Philly, so not far from you, and watering 2x a day seems like craziness to me. Even in the hottest, most brutal heat of this past summer, which was unusually hot and dry, I would not water mature tomato plants more than every other day. Usually more like every 3 or 4 days. Of course, by "watering" I mean slow watering and a LOT of it so that the water penetrates very deep into the ground.

Container plants, however, needed daily or even twice-daily watering.

Are you right on the coast in very sandy soil or something?

Re: #4 -- install the cages when you plant out and make sure to drive stakes deep into the ground and tie the cages to the stakes. Why at plant-out? Because adding cages later can damage the plant, especially the roots, and any time you damage roots, you create an opening for diseases like wilts to have a foothold to infect the plant.

Two of my tomatoes were in grow bags. Twice per day sometimes wasn't enough. Other plants were in raised beds about 8 or 10 inches high. I probably gave them a good soak every other day. I had other veggies and herbs in the beds that definitely wilted if I didn't water frequently, especially the basil. Under the beds is really heavy clay, hard to penetrate with a shovel. Sometimes the water runs out under the beds. The beds are on a slight slope.

Got my cages ready this year. Stocked up at the end of season closeouts.

[MuddyToes]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

I agree with Patihum. Delaware gots nothing on Texas for heat (though N.TX humidity isn't ferocious). If you have to water that often in-ground then you should suspect under-developed and/or way shallow roots.

One bad thing about over-watering is that it can cause the very symptom it's supposed to relieve: loss of turgor.

Hmmm. What causes underdeveloped roots?

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by MuddyToes

Two of my tomatoes were in grow bags. Twice per day sometimes wasn't enough.

Yes, for a growbag, this is normal.

Originally Posted by MuddyToes

Other plants were in raised beds about 8 or 10 inches high. I probably gave them a good soak every other day. I had other veggies and herbs in the beds that definitely wilted if I didn't water frequently, especially the basil. Under the beds is really heavy clay, hard to penetrate with a shovel. Sometimes the water runs out under the beds. The beds are on a slight slope.

That sounds reasonable. I have clay-heavy soil and beds on a slope. I watered tomatoes this year using plastic bottles with tiny pinpricks in them buried in the ground near them at plant-out. That way, I could water more shallow rooted veggies shallowly and still deep-water tomato plants as needed.

[MuddyToes]

Originally Posted by gorbelly

Yes, for a growbag, this is normal.



That sounds reasonable. I have clay-heavy soil and beds on a slope. I watered tomatoes this year using plastic bottles with tiny pinpricks in them buried in the ground near them at plant-out. That way, I could water more shallow rooted veggies shallowly and still deep-water tomato plants as needed.

Ahhh! Love that idea. Thanks, Gorbelly.

I have some spare 5 gallon buckets that I was trying to figure out a way to fashion into a mini irrigation system. Thought I might be able to use them to collect some rain water, and maybe put a valve at the bottom to control water flow and just let them slowly drain into the beds by gravity flow. July is usually very dry here unless we get a hurricane.

So am I better off letting the tomatoes have a slow steady trickle, or a heavy intermittent watering schedule? I read that tomatoes drop their flowers if they don't get a steady water supply. Maybe that isn't true.

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by MuddyToes

Hmmm. What causes underdeveloped roots?

Bunch of stuff. Disease/pests. Over-watering. Bad dirt. Bad karma.

But sounds to me that your plants really aren't "in-ground". The raised bed seems more like a big common pot.

[gorbelly]

Originally Posted by MuddyToes

ASo am I better off letting the tomatoes have a slow steady trickle, or a heavy intermittent watering schedule? I read that tomatoes drop their flowers if they don't get a steady water supply. Maybe that isn't true.

Well, of course a drought-stressed plant is not going to flower well. But if you have a tomato plant with a properly developed root system, it takes a really long time for drought stress to happen, and it will drop blossoms from heat before it will from watering issues.

Tomatoes drop blossoms when it gets over the low 90s not because of lack of water but because high heat destroys the tomato pollen's ability to fertilize. A flower that has used up its time and not had its ovules fertilized is useless to the plant because it can't develop viable seeds, so the plant doesn't maintain its connection to the flower, and the blossom"drops", i.e., falls off without becoming fruit. There are varieties that are better able to set fruit in hotter weather than others.

Where I am, which is probably basically identical to where you are, it's rare for tomatoes to shut down fruit set entirely during the summer, although there are times when fruit set will slow because heat waves "take out" some waves of flowers.

In more southern states with brutal summer heat, they have to plant tomatoes early and rush to get a harvest in before the summer heat hits, after which the heat is too intense, and there will be no more tomatoes because fruit set stops almost entirely. That's why those areas have 2 tomato seasons--one early before summer heat and one late after summer heat.

Watering tomatoes less frequently but more deeply encourages them to grow/send roots deep into the ground. Frequent watering that is less deep encourages roots that stay near the surface. A plant with deep roots is better at handling stresses of all kinds. It is a more robust and often healthier plant.

If your clay under the beds is so hard that plant roots can't get into it, though, you might just have to live with more shallow-rooted plants.