GRAFTING onto tomato rootstocks for resistance

[mensplace]

I wonder in all honesty about the real benefit of planting deeply. This year I did, but when I pulled the vines at the end of the season, I really saw none of the roots that many have long insisted grow from the soil level along the root stem. Almost all of my roots came at the level beneath where the stem ended and roots were when planted. You hear a lot; for example, many have long sworn that you need to plant your tomatoes sideways to develop more roots. I wonder how many people are growing tomatoes in rich, deep topsoils versus the typical Georgia, heavy, micro fine, quick to compact, slow to drain, heavy red clay in regions that are hot and humid throughout the summer, or with maybe an inch of any real topsoil and virtually impervious, anaerobic hardpan six inches below the soil line. Seems I have always been told that roots branch out laterally as well as vertically and that most soil life exist within the top six inches, especially here....and I HAVE added humus every year AND tilled. Of course, other soil scientists have told me NOT to ever till deeply here as that simply kills the soil life down into the anaerobic zone where it will, for the most part, die, i.e., till only the top six inches. Before I got here, this soil, like most in these parts, had been worked with cotton since before the seventies, mostly with traditional NPK approaches. I have added to it and added to it, AND tried to break the hard pan, AND tried to develop the top. If I went back there today I would still have heavy, Georgia clay that holds water like crazy and becomes rock hard and cracks during summer drought. SO, do I really benefit by putting plants well below the natural root line? MOST ag types down here say NO and DON't break that hardpan as down at that level it is rock hard clay and will soon be again...without oxygen. This clay is NOT that lush, rich dark stuff folks elsewhere call "soil" or even "topsoil".

[HakaiRah]

We didn't have rich topsoil so we did some major work to excavate and then bring in loam. It was a little over 15 cubic yards. We did it all with shovels, but it was so worth the effort.

Digging

Filling

Still with having two feet of good soil measn that planting deep does make a huge difference. The image is from a tomato I pulled out 2 1/2 months after planting (due to blight). As you can see there are lots of roots above the container I grew the seedling in. If you have shallow soil laying the plant on its side probably would make a difference.

Good luck!

C

[Ambiorix]

Sowing this day of tomatoes for grafting:
4 Brigeor F1
4 Candy F1
4 He-man F1
(They are hybrids F1 usually used in Europe)

I try also 3 very resistant and very productive varieties:

2 Kaukasiche liana 08
2 Kaukasiche liana 09
2 Red current (in french:petit moineau) Round shape Ambiorix 08
2 Red current Round olive Ambiorix 09

I try also of the F2 obtained to leave F1

2 Maxifort F2 07
2 Maxifort F2 Ambiorix 08
2 Résistar F2 Ambiorix 08
2 Groundforce F2 Ambiorix 08

28 seeds.

I am also going to realize a double grafting:
Melon or cucumber on Cucurbitaceae
Then tomato on melon or cucumber

I am using a hybrid F1 cucurbitaceae Powerfull F1 and Cucurbita ficifolia

I sowing 3 PowerfullF1 and 9 Cucurbita ficifolia 3 different varieties

I do also grafting of Tomato blue Osu on blue Potatoes

[Ambiorix]

I have just planted 6 plantations of potatoes in a round jar 10 cms in diameter:
3 black Shetland black and 3 blaue elise

[feraltomatoes]

I am trying my first attempt at grafting. Using maxifort rootstock to graft to heirlooms. A friend and I are attempting a greenhouse for early harvest and the soil is mucky so we are doing it in grow bags and know of a grower that had crop failure trying to grow heirlooms in greenhouse conditions but pulls of a fine crop using maxifort.
Here is a picture of our first attempt at grafting, can update my progress as we will be growing plants with and without grafting.
http://twitpic.com/z9dhh

BTW, that video of the grafting machine IS amazing. Our grafting adventure went a little slower then that.

[Stepheninky]

Wanted to add that one of the associated benefits is an increase in crop production yields. There has been some research in the Philippines due to them having a monsoon/wet season on grafting in order to grow year round. They are using eggplant rootstock and have noticed a 20% increase in production yields. This production yield aspect seems to be across the board from what I have read on most grafting as long as the rootstock used is a good match for the variety.

Another thing not mentioned is you can do double and triple graft as well. So say you wanted a plant that produces Cherokee Purple and Brandywine fruits on the same plant. With grafting it is possible to do that.

Also did not see anyone post it but one of my questions I had was can you save seeds from grafted plants and will they be true. I did some digging and the answer was that the seed genetics actually come from the top plant that produces the fruit so seed can be saved and will grow true.

I do agree that the rootstock seed that most universities are using in their programs is pretty high on price. As mentioned their are alternatives such as using other hybrids as rootstock as well as other plants ex eggplant and that those methods are a lot cheaper and more practical.

In Europe and Asia grafting is supported to be more common so would love to here more from across the pond on the subject.

[RinTinTin]

By all means experiment, do not let me (or anybody else) dissuade you. Grafting tomatoes in this country (USA) will probably never get serious attention for a variety of factors: it is labor intensive, and it is short term. Yes, apples and other fruit trees have been grafted for decades with great success. The main difference here is that you are grafting a desirable fruit onto a resistant rootstock which will be grown in the soil for 3-5 years before fruit production begins vs an annual plant which will be plowed under within 4 months. Yes, seed can be saved from your tomatoes, but the new plants you grow from those seeds will also have to be grafted onto disease resistant rootstock. In essence, each year, you will have to raise two crops: a fruit crop, and a root stock. Then do all of the required grafting, delay blossoming while the 'fruiting' portion of your plant adapts to it's new host root. In the long run, you would probably be better off if you just left the two species continue on, on their own and pick fruits from both.

If you are really plagued by soil-borne pathogens, I suggest that you take the organic gardening approach, which is "Feed the soil, not the plant". Unhealthy plants grow in unhealthy soil. Healthy plants grow in healthy soil. It would probably help you more to treat your soil than to reinvent the wheel.

But, please experiment! You may discover something GREAT!

[Stepheninky]

Originally Posted by RinTinTin

By all means experiment, do not let me (or anybody else) dissuade you. Grafting tomatoes in this country (USA) will probably never get serious attention for a variety of factors: it is labor intensive, and it is short term. Yes, apples and other fruit trees have been grafted for decades with great success. The main difference here is that you are grafting a desirable fruit onto a resistant rootstock which will be grown in the soil for 3-5 years before fruit production begins vs an annual plant which will be plowed under within 4 months. Yes, seed can be saved from your tomatoes, but the new plants you grow from those seeds will also have to be grafted onto disease resistant rootstock. In essence, each year, you will have to raise two crops: a fruit crop, and a root stock. Then do all of the required grafting, delay blossoming while the 'fruiting' portion of your plant adapts to it's new host root. In the long run, you would probably be better off if you just left the two species continue on, on their own and pick fruits from both.

If you are really plagued by soil-borne pathogens, I suggest that you take the organic gardening approach, which is "Feed the soil, not the plant". Unhealthy plants grow in unhealthy soil. Healthy plants grow in healthy soil. It would probably help you more to treat your soil than to reinvent the wheel.

But, please experiment! You may discover something GREAT!

If the seed is true to type I do not understand what you mean by you will have to graft any offspring of that plant, I have never read that anywhere so just kinda curious where that conclusion comes from. As far as delayed blossoming I also do not understand your logic on that point, It is true that the plant will not produce fruit as soon, but in all the research and charts I have seen the end result is higher production from grafted plants, so they tend to make up for it and then some. Also obviously any gardener I know tries to improve there soil to the best of their ability.

Personally I do not have many issues with insects or diseases in my garden (Except stink bugs) but that does not mean I am unwilling to try new things in my garden. For me it keeps it challenging, interesting and, fun. I love learning as much as gardening so to me it is completely worth it. I can start more seedlings then I could ever plant out, so the experiment factor and just the learning experience is enjoyable to me, Now if I get healthier plants with a slight production increase then personally those are just a bonus. Oh and the evolution of the wheel and the actual science behind it has come a long way as well. Not too many years ago a special way to form the Aluminum wheel was invented that allows the wheels to be lighter and stronger currently that wheel technology is only used in very hi end sports cars but eventually it will trickle down to the rest of the industry. I guess my point is put a set of stone wheels on your car and see the difference it make. As far as grafting goes if it is able to allow someone to grow tomatoes and make it a more enjoyable experience then I think it has its benefits.

[Ambiorix]

The best rootstocks for tomatoes, eggplants and peppers is the wild eggplant :solanum torvum.

But the best means to have many tomatoes is not the transplant it is to have a healthy ground for the roots of the plantations of tomatoes.

I cultivate my plantations of tomatoes always on the same place under a roof. I bring every year many green branches of trees cut in small pieces and put in layer of 20 cms on the ground.

I do not owe watered a lot then roots come down very low and plantations are very strong.

I put so many leaves of Symphytum officinalis in the feet of the plantations of tomatoes and my tomatoes have then a lot of taste.

I look for varieties of tomatoes which have the parculiarity to produce many roots.

Then I could cross this variety with the other varieties to have some more of tomatoes

[RinTinTin]

Your fruit should be true to type, but it will not inherit the genes of the rootstock. And yes, eggplant rootstock would be worth consideration, as they are very robust plants.

[Ambiorix]

The genes of the rootstock not interfering never with the genes of the transplant for the tomato, the eggplant, the hot pepper and the pepper. The rootstock it is a root only. Moreover he never has to have there leaves of the rootstock.

[Stepheninky]

Originally Posted by mensplace

I wonder in all honesty about the real benefit of planting deeply. This year I did, but when I pulled the vines at the end of the season, I really saw none of the roots that many have long insisted grow from the soil level along the root stem. Almost all of my roots came at the level beneath where the stem ended and roots were when planted. You hear a lot; for example, many have long sworn that you need to plant your tomatoes sideways to develop more roots. I wonder how many people are growing tomatoes in rich, deep topsoils versus the typical Georgia, heavy, micro fine, quick to compact, slow to drain, heavy red clay in regions that are hot and humid throughout the summer, or with maybe an inch of any real topsoil and virtually impervious, anaerobic hardpan six inches below the soil line. Seems I have always been told that roots branch out laterally as well as vertically and that most soil life exist within the top six inches, especially here....and I HAVE added humus every year AND tilled. Of course, other soil scientists have told me NOT to ever till deeply here as that simply kills the soil life down into the anaerobic zone where it will, for the most part, die, i.e., till only the top six inches. Before I got here, this soil, like most in these parts, had been worked with cotton since before the seventies, mostly with traditional NPK approaches. I have added to it and added to it, AND tried to break the hard pan, AND tried to develop the top. If I went back there today I would still have heavy, Georgia clay that holds water like crazy and becomes rock hard and cracks during summer drought. SO, do I really benefit by putting plants well below the natural root line? MOST ag types down here say NO and DON't break that hardpan as down at that level it is rock hard clay and will soon be again...without oxygen. This clay is NOT that lush, rich dark stuff folks elsewhere call "soil" or even "topsoil".

We too have hard yellow and red clay here, but in my garden you can berry your hand easily in the soil, do that anywhere else in the yard and you will have broke fingers.

What we do is add any lose matter we can, shredded leaf mulch , ash from where we burn yard materials. One way of losing it up is to add peat moss bales, or straw bales. It takes time but you will eventually see results.

If you have one of those places near buy where you can get much by the truck load or that sells it by the dump truck load you can have that brought in and till it in, as it breaks down the soil will stay lose and be great soil.

Another option would be to use raised beds.

But I can understand the frustration, I have two gardens and the older one is in great shape the newer one is like you described.