Nematode Control Failure

[JackE]

So what is your consensus on nematode control

I just dunno, Worth. It looks like I'm just gonna hafta to learn to live with 'em! I've still got a lot of clean soil and my focus will be to keep it that way. I about died one day last year - my mind was off in space somewhere and I took the tractor-mounted tiller from the infested area to a clean area without hosing iit off! I had made several passes before I woke up! I was comforted by my belief that all the nems were surely dead from the two-year fallow... yeah, sure!

I could write a 400 page book about my efforts to control them. If I had a dollar for every new magic cure I've enthusiastically tried over the decades, I could take my wife on a cruise. My bills for mollases and elbon rye seed alone would feed a starving african family for a year - throw in the marigolds, plastic, truckloads of compost and dozens of products promising a miracle cure and I could send the kids to college in the States!
And the final score is Meloidogyne incognita - 2,371 and Jack 0. I officially give-up!

Jack

[DKelly]

vydate is a restricted use nasty chem. in Hawaii we had a trail with very good effectiveness using melocon which is an chitin eating fungus. Nothing works completely its just a game. We also steam sterilize here. nematodes die around 120f so at a much lower temp than fungus's.
resistant tomatoes work until the soil gets warm and the gene breaks for the resistance.

http://www.harc-hspa.com/publications/VEG5.pdf

[b54red]

I am sorry for your dilemma. I had a terrible nematode problem in my garden initially and could look forward most of my tomatoes dying very early with roots totally decimated very early in the season. They still kill my okra, squash, and cucumbers on a regular basis but their damage to my tomatoes has decreased dramatically due to many of the actions you mentioned trying; but unlike you I am dealing with a small area and can constantly replenish my organic matter which quickly disappears in my sandy soil. I planted the French Marigolds among my cucumbers and okra this year and there was a definite decrease in nematode damage. I have been using them amongst my tomatoes for a couple of years; but they make a big mess and I can't see them being very practical on a large scale.

Have you had no luck with any of the so called nematode resistant varieties? I know many of the commercial growers around here have to deal with nematodes and sandy soil and most now plant a TSWV resistant variety called Amelia which I have never grown. The only hybrid that showed good resistance to nematodes in my garden before I got them under control was Big Beef.

Good luck dealing with your problem. It sounds like you will need it.

[JackE]

Kelly, that's the first actual trial data on MeloCon I've seen - with very positive and encouraging results! Since it's 100% organic, there shouldn't be any restrictions and hopefully it will eventually be available to home gardeners. However, keeping it frozen presents distribution and retail sales problems - unless they include in in the frozen food section at Walmart - not enough market for it to say the least. It's probably got a short shelf life too. The minimum order, as I recall, is large - several acres worth - and expensive. It was much more than we could use and they weren't sure if we could keep it in our freezer for a year or not.

That steam sounds interesting - a new one on me. Have you got a link on that? Nematodes only move a few inches a year, so row/band treatment would be adequate. I wonder how they get deep enough, though.
We won't be using Vydate or any other conventional fumigant.
*****************

Hi, Red --

Funny you mention Amelia! That's a real sore spot - almost cost us all our clients and supporters. It makes a beautiful, very large red tomato that is not ripe inside - the firm parts (the "spokes of the wheel") don't ripen with the rest of it. And worse, when people sat them on the sink to ripen-up like a normal tomato, they rotted inside and bled foul-smelling liquids! And the rare one that appeared a little riper, had no taste whatsoever - zero, worse than Walmart! It's resistant to virtually everything - they've bred so much resistance into it that they sacrificed too many other qualities.

Nem resistance is sort of limited for commercial determinates. There are several Mountain varieties that we haven't tried and Sanibel, an old Florida favorite, that we have planted. They all lose their resistance when soil temp reaches about 85 - which for us often happens in late May and we lose most of the crop.

The last couple of years, we planted Solar Fire (a great tomato for us) in nem-free soil, with a fantastic crops in 2009 and 2010. This year's crop was looking super, loaded with healthy green fruit, and then it quit raining in Texas and our water source dried-up. We did manage to salvage one picking. Solar Fire is a super early cultivar, but not early enough to beat the nems, which get active when soil reaches 65-70. It can't be planted where there's nems, period.

Next year I'm going to try resistant crowder peas, sweet corn and resistant sweet potatoes on my infested land. I'm afraid though, that once the soil warms-up, all that stuff will be attacked and killed.

Jack

[amideutch]

Jack check out these two sites.

http://www.buglogical.com/beneficial...iae-nematodes/

http://www.rinconvitova.com/nematode...a%20carpocapse

It is a beneficial nematode called
Steinernema feltiae
Ami

[clkeiper]

Hi Jack, I don't have a nematode issue here, but I saw on another forum where someone mentioned that seaweed is an excellent additive to the soil and either controls or eliminates the nematodes. I don't live anywhere near an ocean so i have no idea how much you would have to try to see if it is effective in any way to see if it works, but may be worth a try for you if you are close enough to the beach. Has anyone tried solarization on any part of the soil? I know, I know, LOTS of plastic there to try any thing, but even if it could get a row or two of toms to getting ripe, may be worth the effort. My son and husband built a plastic layer (not a raised bed layer) last year out of a scraper blade for the tractor that we really had no use for, modifying the sides with plow parts and a few other welds here and there to hold the plastic roll and drip tape...etc. Saves A LOT of hoeing . We still have to cover the edges by hand, but it gets the plastic down a whole lot faster. I know up here there are a few who own commercial ones and there are those who share the cost of one and rent it out, also. (but they are mainly Amish and horse drawn) The cost is a little prohibitive unless you are using it to produce a crop to sell and even then they are still a bit pricey. Good luck!!!

[Worth1]

I wonder if a person was to build a huge fire on the garden it would kill the things.?
Worth

[clkeiper]

No Idea as to how big of a fire you would need, but I doubt that anyone there, anytime soon, desires to see a fire that big. I think it would work though.especially if it only takes a couple hundred degree to do it. Pile on the sea weed dry it out, light it up and have the fire dept on call. Catch this all on video and let us know how it goes (from jail, I suppose).

[JackE]

I thought I'd heard them all, but seaweed is new to me! :-)

I've been all through the solarization thing. The first year I did it with black plastic (figuring it would be hotter) and it didn't work. Then the extension agent said it had to be CLEAR plastic, so I did that the next year and it didn't work either. All that was some years ago.

Thanks Ami, but at 34.50 per 600 sq ft, my acre would cost over $2000 - and probably wouldn't work (I see they listed RKN as LAST thing on the list of vulnerable pests). I'm pretty cynical after all these years, but it's fun to see that there doesn't seem to be any end to the remedies. But, really, the bottom line is organic matter. Soils that have a lot of OM simpy don't have nematode problems. Period. And, it appears, that those of us with coarse, sandy soil are always going to be afflicted with them unless one is willing/able to use VERY toxic and dangerous chemicals - and even THAT is temporary at best!.

Jack

[clkeiper]

Solorization requires LOTS of moisture. Probably you would have to irrigate it with a drip line to keep enough moisture there.

[dice]

GMO seed, corporate lawyers, and wind-blown pollen can be an
expensive combination for farmers that save and replant their
own seed:
http://www.percyschmeiser.com/conflict.htm

[DKelly]

Hi Jack,
Yes melocon is expensive 300?. We use it because we have to. It works for us meaning we see less damage hard to tell when a product like this works. I guess it means you are less financially impacted by your nematodes. Shrimp shell meal contains chitin that is a food source for fungus's that might then turn to nematodes. I suggest a combo of melocon and shrimp shell meal. Steaming works. Boiling water can penetrate the earth well, especially in sandy soil. but I would put on the melocon after of course. Steaming is regularly used for media here for the floral industry. Also I would not discount N resistant varietals there are some very good tasting tomatoes developed for the greenhouse trade with N resistance as well as some very sweet grape types. Good Luck!

[JackE]

I don't recall the price, Kelly, but it was in the hundreds plus a LOT of freight (same day air). And I think it's an every-year deal, not just a one-time or occasional application - is that right?

I'm not even sure I'll be able to produce much of anything again next year - they say conditions in the Pacific will be the same and our drought will continue.

I won't be growing the tomatoes next year. I'll be starting the plants, but another guy in our project, who has a big irrigation well, will be growing them - in RKN free soil. I do have 5000 row/ft on drip tape now, supplied by a well. So I could do the tomatoes even in continued drought, but the decision to replace me was made before I got it installed. Nobody wants to risk losing the tomato crop again next year - like I did last year.

Jack

[JackE]

Dice, I read the whole case. It was resolved in the end in the farmer's favor. All I can say is that the Canadian judicial system worked in the end. The suit appeared frivilous to me at the outset since the farmer had not purchased any RU Ready seed and had no contract with the seed producer. Apparently, the seed simply blew onto his land, likely from passing trucks, and he was totally innocent - as the court found in the end.

My guess is that the gentleman was manifestly hostile and combative with Monsanto lawyers at the beginning, bringing all that grief upon himself. I can't believe that the matter couldn't have been resolved amicably without litigation, given the facts of the case. He chose to fight a giant corporation and won - but he payed a price for his victory.

In any event, we can't expect advances in plant science if we are unwilling to allow ag companies the same patent rights that pharmaceuticals enjoy. I do agree, however, that enforcement is extremely difficult in the case of patented seed. I wonder why they don't hybridize it or something so the seed can't be reused, or reverts to it's parent plant.

Jack

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by clkeiper

No Idea as to how big of a fire you would need, but I doubt that anyone there, anytime soon, desires to see a fire that big. I think it would work though.especially if it only takes a couple hundred degree to do it. Pile on the sea weed dry it out, light it up and have the fire dept on call. Catch this all on video and let us know how it goes (from jail, I suppose).

I just looked and the Burn Ban in Bastrop county has been lifted.
There has been a burn ban here for over a year now. Ya Hoo!!!!

Worth