List of Dwarf Indeterminate Varieties?

[DiggingDogFarm]

Has anyone created a comprehensive list of known dwarf indeterminate tree-type (ISI) varieties (including commercial hybrids), minus "Dwarf Project" varieties still in development?

If not, I'd like to attempt such a list here.


Thanks!

~Dig

[nctomatoman]

Here's a really good start...we are in the process of working in those new Dwarf project varieties that are now being sold.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...Dwarf_Tomatoes

[DiggingDogFarm]

Yes, I've seen Tatiana's list, I guess I can start with that and just cross off what doesn't fit.
I'm going to ask if I can use the list here as a starting point.


~Dig

[nctomatoman]

There are some issues I note - for example, Stick and Tip Top aren't dwarfs. One thing the list shows is that prior to the Dwarf project, very few existed....and really, Dwarf Champion, Golden Dwarf Champion, Dwarf Stone, New Big Dwarf and Lime Green Salad are the five best known/most widely grown by a mile. The untapped nature of the territory is one of the things that made it attractive to address as a project.

[nctomatoman]

I actually just went in and did an edit so that Tip Top and Stick are not listed as dwarfs.

[DiggingDogFarm]

Okay, I've started a list....
If anyone sees any errors, knows of cultivars that are missing (even hybrids) or knows the status of the unknown cultivars, please let me know.

Bold Dark Green = Dwarf Indeterminate (ISI)
Red = Determinate
(Hybrid) = Hybrids or alleged Hybrids
(DTP) = Dwarf Tomato Project
(?) = Unknown




A
Alpatieva 905A

B
Beefy Boy (Hybrid)
Better Bush Improved (Hybrid)
Budaï Torpe
Bushy Chabarovsky

C
Chibikko
Citron Compact(?)
Crimean(?)
Czech's Bush(?)

D
Demidov
Dragotsennost(?)
Dwarf Beryl Beauty (DTP)
Dwarf Champion
Dwarf Champion 15
Dwarf Champion Improved
Dwarf Emerald Giant (DTP)
Dwarf Giant (?)
Dwarf Mr. Snow (DTP)
Dwarf Recessive
Dwarf Stone, Livingston's

E
Extreme Bush
Extreme Dwarf Bush, German

F
Floragold Basket
Florida Basket (?)

G
Golden Dwarf Champion

H
Hahms Gelbe Topftomate
Husky Cherry Gold
Husky Cherry Red
Husky Gold
Husky Pink
Husky Red

J
Japanese Dwarf
Jewel (see Dragotsennost)

K
Kootenai

L
Lime Green Salad
Lucky Leprechaun

M
Malinovyi Tsvet (?)
Manö(?)
Micro Gemma
Micro Tom
Minibel
Mohamed

N
Nevsky
New Big Dwarf

O
Ola Polka(?)
Orange Tree

P
Patio King(?)
Pertsevidnyi Polosatyi(?)
Polish Dwarf
Polyarnye
Puck(?)

Q
Quarter Century
Quarter Century, Burpee's

R
Red House Free Standing
Red Robin
Rentita(?)
Resista(?)
Rosella Purple (DTP)
Roter Zwerg
Roza Vetrov
Russian Red

S
Shtambovyi Kartofelnolistnyi 1648 (?)
Siberia
Skazka (?)
Snow Fairy(?)
Spiridonovskie(?)

T
Tasmanian Chocolate (DTP)
Totem

U
Utyonok(?)

Y
Yaponskiy Karlik (see Japanese Dwarf)
Yellow Canary
Yellow Dwarf(?)
Yellow Pear brachytic(?)
Yellow Pygmy(?)

~Dig

[casserole]

What qualifiers are need for being a Dwarf .?

[DiggingDogFarm]

Originally Posted by casserole

What qualifiers are need for being a Dwarf .?

Good Question!

I don't think there's any clear consensus on the definition.

Maybe ..........."A tomato plant much below normal size."

???

~Dig

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by casserole

What qualifiers are need for being a Dwarf .?

In the Forum titled Dwarf Project one of the very first threads was written by Craig who defined what a Dwarf should be so you might take a look at that.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=6093

Went back and got it for you.

[TZ-OH6]

This one missed the search

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...rocarpum_lutea

[DiggingDogFarm]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

In the Forum titled Dwarf Project one of the very first threads was written by Craig who defined what a Dwarf should be so you might take a look at that.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=6093

Went back and got it for you.

Thank you!

Yes, I've seen Craig's post.

When you look at a list of tomato genes there are many dwarf phenotypes, that's why I said that there isn't clear consensus on what exactly defines a dwarf.

The word 'dwarf' comes up 51 times in a search of the following list from the Tomato Genetics Resource Center.

http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Genes.html

~Dig

[ljp]

Until I read Craig's post I thought dwarf indeterminate was an oxymoron. Now I might want to try a few.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm

Thank you!

Yes, I've seen Craig's post.

When you look at a list of tomato genes there are many dwarf phenotypes, that's why I said that there isn't clear consensus on what exactly defines a dwarf.

The word 'dwarf' comes up 51 times in a search of the following list from the Tomato Genetics Resource Center.

http://tgrc.ucdavis.edu/Genes.html

~Dig

The only time I go to that table is when I'm looking up a specific gene and now you sent me there again. I believe that there's an equivalent gene list at Cornell where the Tomato Gene Project resides, perhaps presented somewhat differently but I haven't been there in a while.

A couple of comments.

I don't know what the TGRS definition of Dwarf is and I don't know if it's at the site and I'm not about to go looking.

I didn't count, as you did, the number of times the word Dwarf was mentioned, but I'll accept that anyway. If there was info that related to specific varieties that would help, but they don't do that, they just sometimes in some places refer to an accession number and that's Ok too, except only folks who can document their breeding experience can obtain actual seeds. And I agree with that policy.

The last time I communicated with anyone there was when I was asking about a variety brought back from the Galapagos Islands, already named Sara's Galapagos for which I had been given the fruits, not seeds, and I was trying to find out if it was a true currant or whatever.

It was Dr. Chatelet with whom I corresponded and since I knew the name of the Island where it was collected he was able to tell me it wasn't a true currant, rather, a stable interspecies cross, and then gave me a link to a website in England where researchers were doing DNA analyses on tomatoes found on many of the islands. He was a fountain of info and so very helpful. it didn't hurt that I had mentioned Dr. Rick's name as being someone who Craig had interviewed for Off the Vine when we were co-publishing that international newsletter.

I think it's still accepted that tomatoes hitched a ride in some birds that flew from Chile and Peru, the original home of all the tomato species, and dropped them off, as it were, in the Galapagos Islands.

And in my mind that does not include Syngenta's Kumato and as they introduced it in the USA as Rosso Bruno, as being bird dropped in the Galapagos. OK, I know that wasn't being nice to Syngenta, but seldon have I seen more wrong info and hyperbole than that which accompanied their introdiction of Kumato in Australia and England.

[DiggingDogFarm]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

The only time I go to that table is when I'm looking up a specific gene and now you sent me there again. I believe that there's an equivalent gene list at Cornell where the Tomato Gene Project resides, perhaps presented somewhat differently but I haven't been there in a while.

A couple of comments.

I don't know what the TGRS definition of Dwarf is and I don't know if it's at the site and I'm not about to go looking.

I searched both sites for a formal definition of dwarf and came up empty handed.
I guess it's safe to assume that the standard definition applies, that being...."An animal or plant much below normal size." courtesy of Merriam-Webster.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I didn't count, as you did, the number of times the word Dwarf was mentioned, but I'll accept that anyway.

Google's Chrome browser makes it easy, it does the counting.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

If there was info that related to specific varieties that would help, but they don't do that, they just sometimes in some places refer to an accession number......

I agree, It would be MUCH more useful to a half-wit like me if it was linked to specific cultivars.
There is an image search function there for specific genes, that's somewhat useful.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

The last time I communicated with anyone there was when I was asking about a variety brought back from the Galapagos Islands, already named Sara's Galapagos for which I had been given the fruits, not seeds, and I was trying to find out if it was a true currant or whatever.

I'm anxious to grow both Sara's Galapagos and Mexico Midget (the real one), hopefully, next year....side by side.


~Dig

[Jeannine Anne]

I tied something similar to this a couple of weeks ago,I cannot help thinking there should be a different classification for the real tiny ones ..less than a foot perhaps as it is confusing when thinking of dwarfs as pertaining to the project and also to anything that is a small plant,but not always Rugosa etc.

XX Jeannine