Actinovate vs. MycoGrow vs. Nothing - - Update Feb 18 (pics) - Page 3

boomtown · March 2, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by outsiders71

Boomtown:

Not to hijack this thread, but do you have any idea how effective this product is against Black Knot Fungus?

I checked around and we haven't had any trials on Black Knot. It doesn't mean it won't work however. I would try it on a plant if you are still curious as to its effectiveness against this disease. Actinovate is a contact treatment so if you try it on Black Knot be sure to apply as a foliar spray directly on the disease area or drench in the soil before the Black Knot appears. Good luck and let us know how you did! Boomer

dice · March 3, 2009

I did find one case where a trial with Actinovate was fairly
successful in soil (rather than in sterilized container mix),
which was a test on the efficacy of Actinovate+chitin to
control northern root knot nematodes (Meloidogyne Hapla).
One of the test sets was conducted on cups filled with
60% organic soil and 40% sand. It was not total eradication,
but impressive nonetheless. It is one of several reports
included in this document:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2586450

(Search for Actinovate in that page to find the summary.)

If Actinovate's bacteria would survive in my garden soil and
control verticillium, that would be great. The only test results
I found were on verticillium infecting potatoes, where there
was no detectable disease suppression using Actinovate.

I do not know whether the verticillium population had defenses
against Actinovate's particular strain of bacteria or if the soil
environment was simply friendlier to verticillium than it was to
Actinovate. (Probably cold and wet if the verticillium was there
in the first place. I seem to remember reading that Actinovate
needs a soil temperature above 45F/7C to be effective.)

I have been leaning more toward plant extracts that interfere
with verticillium reproduction and metabolism. Extracts are
not alive, so they can't be killed off by other soil organisms
(although they also do not "grow along with the roots", an
upside of a live biocontrol organism), and their action is not
temperature dependent. The only questions are what
concentrations one needs of which extracts to do the job
and how long they are effective before they are broken down
by organisms in the soil.

I am trying a really primitive approach on one plant of a cultivar
that I know is susceptible in soil that I know was verticillium
infected last year: a lime-sulfur soil drench. I happen to have
some around, so finding out if it will supress verticillium is
more or less free.

outsiders71 · March 30, 2009

Dice:

Have you considered growing a sping/fall cover crop of a mustard family, such as oriental mustard or 'Pacific Gold'? The decaying matter of the mustard family is supposed to help kill off a plethora of diseases.

BattleOfBennington · March 30, 2009

Greetings -

I apologize in advance for hijacking this thread for a short time.

my poor pea brain can not keep up and I needed some help from the more seasoned folks in here.

I have been reading about Rootblast, Biotone, Molassas, Micorahizae (sic), actinovate and others.

I totally understand about the need to treat/feed the cause and not the symptoms.

when we bought the house 7 years ago it has a small raised bed - 3ft x 12 ft.

I am about to expand to a 30 x 30 ft section (at least). We have tons of clay here vs the Sand I am used to back home in NY.

When I till, I am going to work in some peat, composted manure, etc.

What else do I need - what Microbial products will get me going the right way. What is suggested so my expanded garden gets up to speed quicker?

Thanks in advance for your input and my pea brain.

outsiders71 · March 30, 2009

BattleOfBennington:

None of these products are going to convert your clay into black gold, but they could benefit your plants health against bad organisms.

As for your clay, before I moved my old lot used to have the worst clay EVER. When it was dry it was as hard as concrete, so hard that you couldn't work it with a shovel. Over 3 years I tried many things, and last summer I actually was able to grow and produce healthy plants in it.

If you want to be able to grow something in your clay lot this summer, google: Lasagna gardening. I had a lot of luck with this technique. If you don't want to spend the time feeding your soil and improving it over time, look into raised beds.

With lasagna gardening you will be feeding your soil and improving its quality. Then in late summer, early fall, right after you're done harvesting, plant a cover crop. Cover crops protect your soil from erosion, suck up nutrients so they don't get washed away, and break up your clay. I did a mix of Winter Rye and Hairy Vetch. These two cover crops survive the winter and restart growing in the spring. In early May I chopped the 4ft worth of cover crops using an electric hedger, and let the roots rot in the soil. I then planted my crops and mulched with the "hay" created by the winter rye and vetch.

I would recommend against tilling, I did it for two years and watched my clay get progressively worse. Check out Steve Groff's no-till website:

http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/

dice · March 30, 2009

[mustard]

I don't know how well mustard will play intermixed with
winter rye, hairy vetch, fava beans, oats, peas, crimson
clover, etc for winter cover crops, so I have not tried it
yet. Spring is pretty much out of the question, unless
I leave a bed fallow for a year and not plant any vegetables
in it. Mixing it into the winter cover crop seeds may be one
way to go, acknowledging that the first hard frost is going
to kill it.

[heavy clay soils]

It requires a lot of work and materials to turn these into
useful garden soils. You can till in a couple of feet of
hardwood chips. There will be some nitrogen drawdown the
first year, but these last awhile and provide drainage and
organic matter. Adding sand is useless unless you mix in
dump truck loads of it (adding 10% sand to a soil that is
70-80% clay makes it closer to concrete).

By far the cheapest, fastest way to go is to build raised beds
on top of it, and fill them with sandy loam, compost, leaves,
horse manure, etc. Tilling a foot of hardwood chips into the
soil underneath the raised bed probably helps making the
usable root space deeper, too.

There is what I call the "HoosierCherokee Method": fill big
burlap sacks with horse manure, line them up end to end
in long rows, cut a cross in the top to put transplants in,
supplement with a little epsom salts, gypsum, and soluble
fertilizers during the summer to fill in anything that the horse
manure may lack, and plant the plants directly in them. At the
end of the summer, build sides for raised beds around them and
fill in with leaves, grass clippings, and similar compostable
materials on top.

Then there is the Earl method: build tall sides out of hunks of
used wooden pallet, and fill in with compostable stuff all
summer (grass clippings, leaves from the previous winter's leaf
piles, manure, whatever else turns up that is useful for this).
The next spring, remove the pallets and build sides for raised
beds around it, spread it out a little, make "Earl's holes" in it.

Each method incrementally adds more raised beds as one
acquires materials to make them out of. HoosierCherokee
can use his beds the first year, because tomatoes will grow
in just horse manure pretty well. Earl's method requires a year
of seasoning before a bed is ready to plant in. Both would
benefit from tilling hardwood chips (or "hardwood fines") into
the hard clay soil under the raised bed first.

A variation might be to mark out a space for a raised bed,
till in the hardwood debris, add some high nitrogen fertilizer
like blood meal or fish meal or urea to compensate for nitrogen
drawdown the first year, and grow a crop of alfalfa in it. Then
mow it the next spring and build the raised bed on top of it.
(Alfalfa roots really deep, breaking up the subsoil a little.)

BattleOfBennington · March 30, 2009

So, if I were to do a Raised Bed Lasagna Style (for 30x30) I would still be able to plant it this spring?

So tell me if I follow these steps where I need correction...

1> till the area with some woodchips and maybe some manure just to break up the surface and allow for greater root depth.

2> Immediately lagana with newspapers, peat, humus, compost, etc. Watering the layers

3> should I ad Actinovate or anything to the layers?

4> Cover with black plastic to cook it a couple weeks until plant date

>>

dice · March 30, 2009

Quote:

3> should I ad Actinovate or anything to the layers?

Can't hurt, might help. Actinovate mainly does two things:
combats some fungal soil and foliage diseases; extends the
reach and efficiency of the root system in taking up nutrients,
similar to mycorhizzae.

You could try something like Biozome or Voodoo Brew on it,
too, to accelerate availability of nutrients from the organic
components of the lasagne bed.

Biozome:
http://www.groworganic.com/item_ISO3...theses=3574311
Voodoo Brew:
http://www.groworganic.com/item_ISO1...222_Quart.html

(These products are both like compost tea inoculants, etc. Their
function is to raise the population of microorganisms chewing
up the raw organic matter in compost and/or garden beds.)

BattleOfBennington · March 31, 2009

Thanks All -

Again I apologise for the hijack.

Any other tip/suggestions - shoot me a PM.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

Whipsnade · May 2, 2009

Not sure if this was asked but is there any benefit or need to redo the soil drench of Actinovate in my Tainers?
I drenched them with 1 cup of Actinovate mixed at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 2 gal of water about 2 weeks after the plants where transplanted.

amideutch · May 2, 2009

Normally not. Once you have inoculated the root system you should be good to go. Just apply Actinovate as a foliar periodically to combat the airborne stuff. Ami

z_willus_d · January 19, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomtown

As a preventative, you drench the soil with Actinovate + water and the microorganism will go and protect your plant's root system. Our product actually forms a shield around the roots to fend off all of the bad microbes that is in everyone's soil. In addition to protecting the roots, Actinovate will also eat the microbes and then spit it back out into the soil as beneficial nutrients. The result is a healthier and stronger plant.

I realize this is an old thread, but I'm curious about something here. If Actinovate has formed a shield around the roots of a plant and one later tries to inoculate with a beneficial, will that that "shield" bar the good organisms from taking hold as well the bad? How does Actinovate discriminate between "good" and "bad," or any other similar product? I'm wondering how exactly we get to have our cake and eat it too (with icing).

Thanks,
Naysen

boomtown · January 19, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

I realize this is an old thread, but I'm curious about something here. If Actinovate has formed a shield around the roots of a plant and one later tries to inoculate with a beneficial, will that that "shield" bar the good organisms from taking hold as well the bad? How does Actinovate discriminate between "good" and "bad," or any other similar product? I'm wondering how exactly we get to have our cake and eat it too (with icing).

Thanks,
Naysen

Hi Naysen-

The Streptomyces microbe is host-specific and only targets the fungal pathogens. It plays nice with other beneficials and even chemicals. We've been testing and trialing Actinovate since 1992 (20 years now!) and this is one smart bacteria. Enjoy your cake.

rnewste · January 19, 2012

Naysen,

I used the combination of Actinovate along with MycoGrow last Season:

Any questions????

Raybo

**mdvpc** · January 19, 2012

Boom

I have used not only your actinovate but also the actinovate with iron and I am having good success with it. I have pythium that was killing my plants-sent some to a plant pathologist, got the diagnosis last summer late. My greenhouse season has been the most successful yet! Thanks for the great product.

March 3, 2009	#32
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I did find one case where a trial with Actinovate was fairly successful in soil (rather than in sterilized container mix), which was a test on the efficacy of Actinovate+chitin to control northern root knot nematodes (Meloidogyne Hapla). One of the test sets was conducted on cups filled with 60% organic soil and 40% sand. It was not total eradication, but impressive nonetheless. It is one of several reports included in this document: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2586450 (Search for Actinovate in that page to find the summary.) If Actinovate's bacteria would survive in my garden soil and control verticillium, that would be great. The only test results I found were on verticillium infecting potatoes, where there was no detectable disease suppression using Actinovate. I do not know whether the verticillium population had defenses against Actinovate's particular strain of bacteria or if the soil environment was simply friendlier to verticillium than it was to Actinovate. (Probably cold and wet if the verticillium was there in the first place. I seem to remember reading that Actinovate needs a soil temperature above 45F/7C to be effective.) I have been leaning more toward plant extracts that interfere with verticillium reproduction and metabolism. Extracts are not alive, so they can't be killed off by other soil organisms (although they also do not "grow along with the roots", an upside of a live biocontrol organism), and their action is not temperature dependent. The only questions are what concentrations one needs of which extracts to do the job and how long they are effective before they are broken down by organisms in the soil. I am trying a really primitive approach on one plant of a cultivar that I know is susceptible in soil that I know was verticillium infected last year: a lime-sulfur soil drench. I happen to have some around, so finding out if it will supress verticillium is more or less free. __________________ -- alias

March 30, 2009	#36
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	[mustard] I don't know how well mustard will play intermixed with winter rye, hairy vetch, fava beans, oats, peas, crimson clover, etc for winter cover crops, so I have not tried it yet. Spring is pretty much out of the question, unless I leave a bed fallow for a year and not plant any vegetables in it. Mixing it into the winter cover crop seeds may be one way to go, acknowledging that the first hard frost is going to kill it. [heavy clay soils] It requires a lot of work and materials to turn these into useful garden soils. You can till in a couple of feet of hardwood chips. There will be some nitrogen drawdown the first year, but these last awhile and provide drainage and organic matter. Adding sand is useless unless you mix in dump truck loads of it (adding 10% sand to a soil that is 70-80% clay makes it closer to concrete). By far the cheapest, fastest way to go is to build raised beds on top of it, and fill them with sandy loam, compost, leaves, horse manure, etc. Tilling a foot of hardwood chips into the soil underneath the raised bed probably helps making the usable root space deeper, too. There is what I call the "HoosierCherokee Method": fill big burlap sacks with horse manure, line them up end to end in long rows, cut a cross in the top to put transplants in, supplement with a little epsom salts, gypsum, and soluble fertilizers during the summer to fill in anything that the horse manure may lack, and plant the plants directly in them. At the end of the summer, build sides for raised beds around them and fill in with leaves, grass clippings, and similar compostable materials on top. Then there is the Earl method: build tall sides out of hunks of used wooden pallet, and fill in with compostable stuff all summer (grass clippings, leaves from the previous winter's leaf piles, manure, whatever else turns up that is useful for this). The next spring, remove the pallets and build sides for raised beds around it, spread it out a little, make "Earl's holes" in it. Each method incrementally adds more raised beds as one acquires materials to make them out of. HoosierCherokee can use his beds the first year, because tomatoes will grow in just horse manure pretty well. Earl's method requires a year of seasoning before a bed is ready to plant in. Both would benefit from tilling hardwood chips (or "hardwood fines") into the hard clay soil under the raised bed first. A variation might be to mark out a space for a raised bed, till in the hardwood debris, add some high nitrogen fertilizer like blood meal or fish meal or urea to compensate for nitrogen drawdown the first year, and grow a crop of alfalfa in it. Then mow it the next spring and build the raised bed on top of it. (Alfalfa roots really deep, breaking up the subsoil a little.) __________________ -- alias

May 2, 2009	#41
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Normally not. Once you have inoculated the root system you should be good to go. Just apply Actinovate as a foliar periodically to combat the airborne stuff. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

January 19, 2012	#45
mdvpc Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 4,386	Boom I have used not only your actinovate but also the actinovate with iron and I am having good success with it. I have pythium that was killing my plants-sent some to a plant pathologist, got the diagnosis last summer late. My greenhouse season has been the most successful yet! Thanks for the great product. __________________ Michael

March 30, 2009	#33
outsiders71 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 150	Dice: Have you considered growing a sping/fall cover crop of a mustard family, such as oriental mustard or 'Pacific Gold'? The decaying matter of the mustard family is supposed to help kill off a plethora of diseases.

March 30, 2009	#34
BattleOfBennington Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 76	Greetings - I apologize in advance for hijacking this thread for a short time. my poor pea brain can not keep up and I needed some help from the more seasoned folks in here. I have been reading about Rootblast, Biotone, Molassas, Micorahizae (sic), actinovate and others. I totally understand about the need to treat/feed the cause and not the symptoms. when we bought the house 7 years ago it has a small raised bed - 3ft x 12 ft. I am about to expand to a 30 x 30 ft section (at least). We have tons of clay here vs the Sand I am used to back home in NY. When I till, I am going to work in some peat, composted manure, etc. What else do I need - what Microbial products will get me going the right way. What is suggested so my expanded garden gets up to speed quicker? Thanks in advance for your input and my pea brain.

March 31, 2009	#39
BattleOfBennington Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 76	Thanks All - Again I apologise for the hijack. Any other tip/suggestions - shoot me a PM. I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

May 2, 2009	#40
Whipsnade Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 1	Not sure if this was asked but is there any benefit or need to redo the soil drench of Actinovate in my Tainers? I drenched them with 1 cup of Actinovate mixed at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 2 gal of water about 2 weeks after the plants where transplanted.

January 19, 2012	#44
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Naysen, I used the combination of Actinovate along with MycoGrow last Season: Any questions???? Raybo