Cocoa bean hulls

[Wi-sunflower]

I just wanted to see if anyone has used cocoa bean hulls as part of a potting mix.

The only posts a search brought up were about using it as a mulch. I want to use it as part of my mix I make for my greenhouse.

My normal mix is equal parts peat moss, perlite and vermiculite. But the cost of vermiculite has gotten awful here the last couple of years. Right now I can get Cocoa hulls locally for about 1/3 off the price of the vermiculite. A 4 cu ft bag of vermiculite is $15. A 2 cu ft bag of Cocoa hulls is less than $5.

I just want to be sure there isn't any horrible things I should watch out for or a reason I should avoid the cocoa hulls. I hope they don't have any seed suppression effects as I did use it in the mix yesterday for seeding some cabbage and broccoli.

It sure does make the greenhouse smell good too.

I'm thinking about the Cocoa hulls because it's about the only thing I've found locally that is small enough for small pots and seed flats. Any type of shredded mulch here is fine for big pots or SWCs but way too coarse for seed flats.

Carol

[lurley]

I've never used them in potting mix only as mulch. As a mulch I tried them because they were so light weight and bags were easy to carry around (and they look cool and smell great). We have bad wind here and I thought they would just blow away so I only did a small area at first. Once they are down you have to water them and then they sorta lock together over top of each other which keeps them in place and from blowing away. I mention this because if they do this in the potting mix then that is the opposite of creating air space like vermiculite.... but then they are mixed with other things and not all together like they are when used as mulch so maybe they can't do that then like they normally would.

[fortyonenorth]

Carol,

Two years ago I custom-mixed about 5 cu. yds. of container mix. I used cocoa bean hulls in place of pine bark fines and I was very pleased. I would consider them a perfect substitute. The only downside was the price - at the time, I paid about $7 for a 2 cu. ft. bag. Since then I've seen it for about 1/2 that at the big box stores. I think the major distributor is in Wisconsin, so you might find it quite a big cheaper by you.

I think the initial source is Blommer's Chocolate in Chicago. Wow....on a good day, when the wind is blowing from the right direction, downtown Chicago smells like a big brownie.

When I was doing my research, I read where someone's dog ate a bunch of the cocoa hulls and died. I think that could happen with any mulch, but the thought was that the dog was attracted to the smell of the stuff. My coons didn't eat the stuff and they'll eat anything, so I don't know that this wasn't anything but an isolated instance.

Rich

[Wi-sunflower]

Ok then.

I have some mixed up, and other than they seem to need a lot more water to get them wet than the vermiculite, they seem to make a decent mix. For now I also have vermiculite in the mix. But when I run out of what I have I probably won't be getting more.

The local Menards store is carrying some packed in Lake Geneva and I'm guessing come from the big Nestle plant in Burlington. The 2 cu ft bag is 4.69 + tax.

There is also Ambrosia Chocolate in Milwaukee. When I was just out of high school I went to the vo-tech school downtown for nite classes. When we would get out, we would hope the wind was off the lake because then everything smelled like chocolate from the Ambrosia plant (since moved to the burbs). But if the wind was from the west the place smelled of stale beer from Pabst which was just on the other side of the school.

Carol

[coronabarb]

I do not know, w/o doing some research, if there is sufficient quantity of theobromine in cocoa hulls to cause sickness/death in a dog but I wouldn't take the chance. I do love the smell of the stuff...

From the "Ask the Vet" website;

Chocolate contains theobromine that is toxic to dogs in sufficient quantities. This is a xanthine compound in the same family of caffeine, and theophylline.

The good news is that it takes, on average, a fairly large amount of theobromine 100-150 mg/kg to cause a toxic reaction. Although there are variables to consider like the individual sensitivity, animal size and chocolate concentration.

On average,
Milk chocolate contains 44 mg of theobromine per oz.
Semisweet chocolate contains 150mg/oz.
Baker's chocolate 390mg/oz.

Using a dose of 100 mg/kg as the toxic dose it comes out roughly as:
1 ounce per 1 pound of body weight for Milk chocolate
1 ounce per 3 pounds of body weight for Semisweet chocolate
1 ounce per 9 pounds of body weight for Baker's chocolate.

So, for example, 2 oz. of Baker's chocolate can cause great risk to an 15 lb. dog. Yet, 2 oz. of Milk chocolate usually will only cause digestive problems.

[TomNJ]

Here is some more info on the theobromine content in cocoa hulls:

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoamulch.asp

Per the ASPCA, it takes over nine ounces of cocoa hulls to cause death in a 50 lb dog, and according to Hersheys, 98% of dogs will not eat it. Nonetheless, there is a threat to dogs.

TomNJ

[Wi-sunflower]

Well the only dogs at my place don't belong here in the first place. My farm is kitty heaven. We have a herd of them all over the place. They don't seem interested in the cocoa hulls either. Tho a couple have become pesty in the greenhouses as they walk, lay, roll and do their duty any place they please.

Carol

[tuk50]

http://www.cocoashellmulch.co.uk/
At the bottom of this page it states the npk .
Looks like good stuff... I am going to try it if available around here.

[mjc]

The only danger I know of is the smell...

Makes me go hunting for the brownies.

Kind of like living in Hershey, PA.

[Wi-sunflower]

Actually I'e found out a few things using the Cocoa hull for part of my production this year.

First they don't want to get wet easily. So we had to let the planted flats sit in the dunk tank longer to be sure the plants were wet.

The Cocoa hulls DO help with drainage, so that's a plus.

But the biggest neg is the fact that they are pure carbon and you can see those plants are yellow and smaller compared to those with less or none. I think if they were composted or it was used with the plants earlier you could overcome the N being used up with a bit more N in the fertilizer. But this late in the season, we took it out as we didn't have the time to let them grow out of the yellows.

And yes the smell is luscious and makes you want to look for your fav treat.

Carol

[mjc]

As to the wetting...pre-soak them with HOT water (and look for a milky film on the top of the water...that's cocoa butter).

For the N issue...mix in a little blood meal to the planting mix. I've done that with various other high C items mixed into a planting mix with great results.

[Wi-sunflower]

I have seen a bit of the milky water even tho we only use room temp water for the dunk tank. What I call a dunk tank is just a container large enough to put a whole flat in and let it float til it nearly sinks. We do use some wetting agent in the water too as dry peat can be awful to get wet too. Sometimes it's a commercial wetting agent and other times it will just be a squirt of original Dawn.

As far as the Blood Meal goes, that's not an acceptable option for me. But we do have other dry ferts I could add to my mix. I just don't have the time for that any more this year. But I will do it next year early enough for it to work.

Carol

[tuk50]

I use soybeanmeal or cottonseedmeal from the feed store to add in my mixes with high carbon. It seems to work well.

[bughunter99]

I've cocoa bean mulch as both mulch for containers and mulch in the garden. It is fabulous stuff. The lovely smell goes away after a couple of rains but then you have a mulch surface that sort of turns into a mulch crust. Water gets in fine but it definitely helps with the weeds.

I've never used it as a amendment to soil, seems kind of pricey to use it that way. A caution to all about cocoa bean mulch. It is toxic to dogs and they do try to eat it. Mine did. It smells like food. Do not use it in any area that dogs have access to.

Stacy

[bughunter99]

Originally Posted by TomNJ

Here is some more info on the theobromine content in cocoa hulls:

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/cocoamulch.asp

Per the ASPCA, it takes over nine ounces of cocoa hulls to cause death in a 50 lb dog, and according to Hersheys, 98% of dogs will not eat it. Nonetheless, there is a threat to dogs.

TomNJ

Interesting. We had a beagle die here from eating it maybe nine years ago.